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Thread: Car Handling Characteristics....a non exhaustive list.

  1. #17
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    ABS: Anti-Lock Braking System

    How a car CORNERS, and why you need to know:

    When you car moves, think of it like a drop of water on a window. Where is the easiest route for it to slither down? Which bit offers least resistance.

    When you take your handbrake off, and your car rolls forward or backwards what stops it just sliding sideways?

    Friction. The tyres will have almost identical grip in every direction....but thew WHEEL BEARINGS wanna roll one way....and so the car goes that way.

    When you turn the steering wheel, you ask the car to change direction. Why does it change direction? Cos its easier than going straight onward.

    BUT NOT IF YOU SKID.

    If you lock up the front wheels, and they are no longer turning, the car will just go in the direction its body mass wants it to go.

    The car will NOT TURN unless you get those front wheels UN LOCKED and allow the wheels to TURN...then suddenly the car realises its a damm site easier to go ROUND the corner and not straight on....

    so you, as the driver, need to feel the cars grip, and determine what pressure to put on the brake pedal.

    ABS was introduced to lots of cars for this reason. If you SKID, it notices realises one or more tyres are going slower or even have stopped, in relation to the other tyres, and an hydraulic regualtor puts the brakes on and off multiple times per second to allow braking AND allowing the wheel to turn....ie to STEER.

    It also allows the car to stop in a shorted distance, (minimally) than if it skids. Because once those tyres skid, they heat up in a split second and lose more grip.....thus longer stopping distance.

    BUT without ABS there are benefits. Its true. If it SNOWS, and the snow is DEEP< you WANT to SKID.....it builds up a lump of snow in front of the tyres and that stops you.
    Audi have offered an ABS OFF mode on lots of cars for that reason.

    What can you do without ABS?

    Its called CADENCE BRAKING....its where you physically pump the pedal very very quickly on and off.....some people do it like this:

    Ball of your foot on the pedal......push hard and allow your HEEL to flex....and bounce you knee........very fast. Others do it with the entire leg. The problem is doing it in the heat of imminent disaster. Best to learn where your car skids and not go past that grip level.

    What d you do if you DO have ABS? Sounds silly, right? Nope...its a good question.

    People dont realise that ABS makes your pedal shake....BIG TIME. It's like having a hammer drill under your foot. Which, sadly, makes people panic and ease off the pedal

    WRONG....with ABS you KEEP PUSHING.....keep at it....hard....real hard.

    The car will squirm.....the arse gets a bit loose, but with good ABS you have a very good chance of the back NOT coming round, cos it will let off the pressure and allow better balance.

    It aint gauranteed folks...and on a tightening corner, you might still spin off, BUT ABS gives you a good chance of

    A: Stopping earlier
    B: Stopping straighter
    C: Steering if needed
    D: Not whacking that poor little kid

    Do motorsport cars have it? Not often. Why not? Cos the tyres are different, the grip is huge, the brakes mahoosive and it would get shaken to death.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Torque Steer: The effect on a front (or possibly a powerfull 4 wheel drive car), where the action of the twist from the engine AND the tyres/wheels makes the car's steering "squirm" in the drivers hands.

    It is possible to engineer it's effects away, and only some older front drive cars with high power outputs suffered badly.

    Also created by the tyre walls flexing under heavy acceleration from standing, and the resulting action causes the steering to writhe in your hands. Notable cars that did it badly...(or is that well ) the Astra GTE 16v...bloody awefull torque steer in both first and second gear. That car could virtually change lanes while you were trying to get away fast

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Axle Tramp: Mainly a problem on older rear wheel drive cars, such as Mark 1 and 2 Escorts with high power outputs, BUT also found in front hweel drive cars to an extent. Under heavy acceleration, from a standing start, the excess power that is put down to the tarmac doesn't always translate into wheel spin. Some times the wheel physicaly jumps up into the wheel arch and then drops straight back down and then does it again, because while airborn the revs rose quickly. The tyres literally "throw" the tyre stright up. Doesnt happen much on low traction surfaces...then the wheels just spin....

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

  4. #20
    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Tank Slapper: Applies to all cars. Its the time when you slide the arse end one way, over compensate, and the arse then slides the other way, and you then have a set of springs and the weight of the car, that are trying to rock back and forward SIDEWAYS.....the momentum from one makes the next steering effort more difficuly to judge because the rear of the car is about to come whipping round anyway... long long ago, it was called "wagging the dogs tail"

    the "Tank Slapper" is due to the fuel in the tank slapping from side to side. It actually makes the situation worse because the weight of fuel moves from left to right, AND you might starve the car of fuel for a second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    HEXUS.timelord. Zak33's Avatar
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    Trail Braking: Covered elsewhere, but a short version: When entering a corner, apply a smooth and increasing force to the brake pedal to increase the weight over the fron tyres and decrease the weight to the rears...the steering grip will be massively higher IF you judge the brake force right. Too much..understeer....too little...understeer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advice Trinity by Knoxville
    "The second you aren't paying attention to the tool you're using, it will take your fingers from you. It does not know sympathy." |
    "If you don't gaffer it, it will gaffer you" | "Belt and braces"

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    Tramlining : A car's tendency to follow ruts and grooves in the roads surface, similar to a tram following it's lines. Noticable on cars where the camber and toe-in of the front wheels are adjusting incorrectly. Particularly noticeable on late Classic Mini's with the Sportspack. Rover added 13" wheels, and messed about with the geometry, resulting in rather appalling tramlining


    ZAK EDIT: superb addition
    Last edited by Zak33; 20-09-2004 at 04:53 PM. Reason: superb addition...cheers fella
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    Asking silly questions menthel's Avatar
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    ERk. Just read this for 1st time. I have experienced lift off oversteer in my XSi at about 65 when coming off the mway! Quite scary but felt good as well. And i didn't crash!

    Kangaroo petrol: a cars ability to joey around with a learner driver behind the wheel (or me and the wifes mini!).
    Not around too often!

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    Blue Army Member spazman's Avatar
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    My 1989 Mk2 Golf 5door handles similarly to a pregnat yak. Bodyrolltastic!
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    F.A.S.T. Butuz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Vicious
    Particularly noticeable on late Classic Mini's with the Sportspack. Rover added 13" wheels, and messed about with the geometry, resulting in .......
    poor handling full stop.

    Ten inches all the way!!!!!!

    Butuz

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    My name is James J4MES's Avatar
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    Re: Car Handling Characteristics....a non exhaustive list.

    Drifting - the art of getting a car sideways (see Oversteer) and holding the car in that position while cornering, keeping the rear wheels spinning and hence reducing the friction on that axle (by using a combination of applying more or less throttle and opposite lock - on a left hand turn, right lock is applied). Jap D1 drift series sees drivers lapping circuits whilst almost always in a drift.

    You can see the car will travel in the direction that the front wheels are pointing, albeit with the a**e end hanging out


    4-wheel drift - usually done in a 4WD car (especially in the wet/on gravel) whereby the car gets sideways and goes sideways, i.e. unlike oversteer (where the front wheels follow a path in the direction they are pointing and the rear 'pundulums' outside that arc) the front axle moves laterally too - lighter throttle application/steering lock is applied to hold the car on a given line usually keeping all 4 wheels spinning hence reducing friction and allowing lateral movement.

    Here it's being done in the dry and on tarmac (!) but you get the idea; the front wheels are pointing dead-ahead but the Evo will be going sideways - set up nicely for the exit of the corner where the driver can simply stomp on the loud pedal, give it some beans, mash the throttle, floor/boot/welly/nail it, Golf Lima Foxtrot.
    Last edited by J4MES; 06-09-2007 at 01:32 PM.
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    Senior Member SilentDeath's Avatar
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    Re: Car Handling Characteristics....a non exhaustive list.

    Ive done lift off oversteer since then I have been a little more sensible (and I go slower round corners).

    for some reson since that happened, however much I try ( low gears high rpm puttiing foot on floor round corners), I seem unable to get understeer anymore, I used to enjoy it a lot

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    Re: Car Handling Characteristics....a non exhaustive list.

    the Scooby will happily understeer, oversteer or drift (both ways) all depending on how it's provoked... it's a bit wierd tbh, but the levels of lateral grip it can generate (wet and especially dry) are astounding - I'd never seen car tyres 'scrubbed in' round the edges before
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    VTECmeous Vimeous's Avatar
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    Re: Car Handling Characteristics....a non exhaustive list.

    Snap Oversteer
    Typical example in a front-wheel drive car:
    Approach a roundabout with the intention of going straight over with no incoming traffic.
    Enter too fast, get the left kink correct but realise you'll understeer into the outside kerb.
    Lift-off the throttle rapidly while turning right to make the exit inducing the rear of the car the swing rapidily to the left (lift-off oversteer) with the front wheels as a pivot point.
    This process stores a huge amount of energy in the suspension and rear tyres of the car.
    Overcorrect the steering left as the rear of the car swings round to compensate.
    This immediately releases all the stored energy at the rear of the car and very rapidly the rear of the car swings to the right. This is often violent and makes the car 'stand-up', often pivoting around the centre of the car as all four wheels become unloaded.

    If a tank-slapper is not recovered it can end with snap-oversteer spinning the car completely.
    Last edited by Vimeous; 06-09-2007 at 03:25 PM.
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    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Car Handling Characteristics....a non exhaustive list.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentDeath View Post
    I seem unable to get understeer anymore, I used to enjoy it a lot
    How can you enjoy understeer? Every time I get it I think either 'crap I'm hitting that car on the other side of the road', 'crap I'm going to go into that hedge' or just 'crap this car is crap at corners'

    Oversteer gives me the willies, but I still can't imagine enjoying understeer.
    Last edited by kalniel; 06-09-2007 at 03:33 PM.

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    Senior Member SilentDeath's Avatar
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    Re: Car Handling Characteristics....a non exhaustive list.

    inside lane of a empty roundabout?

    I love putting my foot down, in second, going round a corner at 40mph...

    straight lines bore me, although I tell myself I would be late for work every day without them

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    Re: Car Handling Characteristics....a non exhaustive list.

    understeer =/= fun... do you mean oversteer (as understeering you'd quickly end up sliding into the outside lane/lamp post)?

    Last edited by J4MES; 07-09-2007 at 08:52 AM.
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