Parking ticket

[Smudger]

Someone I know has just received a debt collection letter for a parking fine when there was no ticket on the windscreen.

Fair enough, you can't account for some scallywag taking the ticket off and throwing it. However, there were no subsequent letters from the parking company, just the Debt recovery notice.

The person requested pictures from the company, and received them, with one showing the ticket on the screen but this person has received tickets for other dates (it's a pay by phone station car park and he/she forgot to pay in time). On this occasion he/she paid from work, but late, so the car was parked there without a ticket for a bit, although the amount paid covered the time the ticket was 'issued'.
The date and time on the photos appears to be photoshopped on, and properties on the file only reveal the date and time it was opened and stored on the PC.

On top of this, the pictures are of a different location from the one mentioned on the Debt Recovery letter, the one on the letter is on the other side of the station.

So, what I'm asking is, is it fair of the company to charge a penalty fee when no parking charge notification letters were received, or should he/she just ignore the letters?
I'm reading on other sites that parking charge notifications are not enforceable in law, and charges can only be made for loss of earnings incurred by that car being parked there.

Anyone got any knowledge on this? They seem to be employing scare tactics, and when phoning to appeal, was told 'there is no appeal, you have to pay', which seems wrong.

[Kumagoro]

I think there might be an ombudsman for this sort of thing or similar.

You have to appeal to them within a certain time. I haven't done it but sometime I work with did and said they were successful in getting it over turned.

[TeePee]

Head on over to Pepipoo, they have strategies for this kind of thing. Private Parking Company tickets are NEVER legitimate.

[Gerrard]

Best place to ask and research is here: -

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...play.php?f=163

You might need to name the company for someone to give you a better answer, as some companies are easier to ignore than others. However, I'm pretty certain they have to send out at least one letter to the registered address confirming that you were the person driving before passing on your details to a debt collection agency.

[Smudger]

I get the impression that they have people trawling forums trying to catch people talking about it so they can identify people in order to chase them, hence not mentioning the company. They are pretty well known on the forums I've searched though...

[Macadee]

I've had three private tickets a few years from the same place, which the wording on them was an invitation to pay. Never took up their invitation and heard no more about it.

At the time they needed photographic evidence to prove you were the driver (CCTV or similar) which I knew they didn't have, though the legislation may have changed now.

[Smudger]

I think they've changed it to owner culpability...

Is there any way of getting date and time a picture was actually taken, rather than the time it was saved to the local drive?

[Saracen]

I think they've changed it to owner culpability...

Well, IANAL, but .... that would astonish me, PROVIDED we are talking about a private company parking "ticket", not one issued by official bodies, like police of local council parking enforcement officers, who are acting under local by-laws.

The official ones are different, being genuinely penalty notices, or fines, but private companies cannot issue those. As long as it's private, then essentially, by parking on private property you (or rather, the driver, but for the sake of description here, "you") are entering into a contract with the landowner - they provide somewhere to oark and, subject to terms and conditions, you pay for that. Essentially, it's rather like going into a shop and buying something.

And in order to enforce any "penalty" (which it isn't by the way) they are, essentislly, sending you an invoice. It is ONLY enforceable IF you (and I mean you, not someone else) entered the contract, incurred the liability AND a court issues a judgement against you.

Up to the point a court issues a judgement, debt collection letters, etc, are merely notices advising you that they consider money to be ourstanding. Well, if a company sends you a letter saying you owe £x, do you just pay it? Would you pay it if someone else incurred the debt?

The owner might be liable for official, statutory parking tickets, but for private parking? Not as far as I know.

The first critical question, therefore, is the exact status of this "ticket"?

If it's an official one, not a private company, then there's an independent appeals process. If it's a private company, then it's FAR harder to enforce, because it can only be enforced if a court issues a judgement, and while that is certainly possible, there are a number of barriers making it less likely. And if the "evidence" doesn't relate to the claimed incident (like photos are of a different place) then, if that's presented to the (small claims court) judge, it's not going to help their case.

To be clear, as long as it's private, it CANNOT be enforced short of a court case. Threatening letters, and/or visits from debt collectors not only are unenforceable, but may well be harrassment and if so, are criminal offences.

So, if it's private, you can ignore it, and either it'll go away, ir they take it to court, and then, you have to make your case. If you lose, then you may have to pay up. But until you lose a court case, debt collectors cannot seize goods, clamp your car, harrass you, etc,. Not legally, anyway.

But it all depends on whether this is a official "ticket" under a statutory power, or an "invoice" from a private company, under contract and property law.

**** Usual caveat - I'm not a lawyer, and the above is opinion, not advice. You act on it at your own risk, and the one piece of actual advice I'd give is ... consult a lawyer.

[Smudger]

It's a private company, the car park is on railway land, but I'm not sure if it's covered by the Railway Act.

Thank, Saracen, that was pretty much what I suspected but none of the cases I found seemed to match this one, with regard to no letters from the parking company being received, just straight to Debt Recovery...

[Macadee]

I think they've changed it to owner culpability...

Is there any way of getting date and time a picture was actually taken, rather than the time it was saved to the local drive?

Try right clicking the file for properties>details tab, there can be exif data dependant on the source etc., but this can probably be user manipulated.

[Agent]

I can't really add anything to what's been said, but only a few days ago there was a court ruling regarding private 'fines': http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...test-case.html

Now, make sure you read the entire thing as it only applies in certain limited situations, but the blog is worth keeping an eye on in general if you're into this sort of thing