Decisions (and car dealers who don't want my money)

[kalniel]

A3 Sportback, Saloon or VW Golf?
2.0 TDI or 1.4 tfsi CoD?
Sport suspension or SE?
New or used?

I can't blooming decide. And the local dealers are not helping by being so stingy with test drives.

My commute is a bit odd - mostly dual carriageways but some twisty stuff, and the road quality is poor. So I want the impossible blend of absolute refinement plus OK handling (doesn't have to be racey or full of feel, just not wallowy). And I love a really nice cabin.

So far the press reviews are clear - the golf wins the refinement/bad surface test, while the Audi has a nicer cabin. I haven't seen anything conclusive about the choice of engines because hardly anyone seems to do anything other than quote official figures.

So I do what anyone would do - try and book test drives to figure it out for myself. Audi had a nice second hand saloon with almost exactly my perfect choice of options (sound system etc.). But they wouldn't let me test drive it properly, instead they got me a cabriolet demo car. Apparently this is 'absolutely identical in handling to the saloon' so I get to do a longish drive. 2.0 tdi, sport spec (+ suspension). It's awful. Too crashy over the imperfections on my roads and yet too wobbly for the twisties. I was told it had the better sound system too, but it sounded rubbish.

I am not best pleased when I return to Audi. Well actually, I'm kind of OK, because I'm able to rule out their options. But then they give in and let me do a short test drive in the saloon (2.0tdi sport spec). What a difference! It doesn't wallow at all. I get to test some speed bumps on the short test and it's kind of fine too, but I don't get to try my commute road so can't completely rule out crashyness. But the sound is so much better. After some digging it's clear the demo car didn't have the option I was looking to test. Thanks for wasting my time there, Audi.

Of course, I want to try the fabled Golf too. So onto VW. Yes of course I can have a test drive of a 2.0tdi SE But.. only on their fixed route. This is annoying. The engine and gearchange are indeed more refined in the golf than the Audi. The seats are at least as comfy. But this magical ride? No. I can feel all the road imperfections through the car. It's not crashing, but it's not very smooth either. Though again, due to not being able to test on the same roads I don't get a fair comparison. And the handling on the few twists I got to try was not perfect (but didn't get to try much). While smart, the at touch controls on the Golf weren't quite at the same quality either - the steering wheel was very hard and had quite uncomfortable 'lumps' which I guess are meant to be ergonomic but were actually a hindrance compared to the Audi wheel which was much better.

So far both dealers know I'm in the market for a possibly new car, but seem rather unwilling to help me buy from them. If I could get a second hand car with the spec I want (improved sound system, cruise, climate) then I'd be on it, but it just isn't happening, leading me to consider buying a new car for the first time in my life (would keep it for 8-9 years so it's not a completely unreasonable thing to consider).

But no-way am I ordering a car without being sure I can specify the right option as a result of test driving something similar properly!

[herulach]

where are you? If you're not desparate for 5 doors I've a 2l 150 Leon SC FR that needs shifting (1 year old 10k) with seat sound, cruise & climate, as well as nav etc.

FWIW mine has the sports suspension which I think is the same as the A3 slines, golf GT etc, and whilst it can be a bit loud over rough surfaces I genuinely like it. Cabin wise its nicer to sit in than the golf, but obv not as good as an A3.

[kalniel]

Thanks, but yeah 5 doors is a must. I was considering Leons until I discovered the 150ps model has only basic rear suspension. And the Skoda Octavia is too big before anyone makes the (otherwise valid) suggestion.

[herulach]

Fair enough, although you could get a 184 FR tech pack for the same list as a 150 Golf GT. I'm in a Golf SE (pre contract car till my company one comes) at present, and its dull as dishwater. Its reasonably comfy but thats about all its got going for it.

FWIW the sound system is worthwhile, although don't expect anything epic. I'd also reccomend you try adaptive cruise before you spec it. I hate it on golfs, as you can't (or at least I can't see how) to turn the adaptive bit off. As I tend to run with cruise on essentially everywhere (even 30 limits) its kind of annoying.

[kalniel]

Yeah I'm not expecting epic from the sound system, I just want it to be passable, and the standard Audi one was not, but the upgrade (10 speaker one, not the B&O) was good enough.

I don't/shouldn't really care about dull if it rides well. My wife really liked the A3 saloon shape and it is pretty gorgeous compared to the hatchback.. but definitely less practical.

Thanks for the point about the adaptive cruise - again my normal route would have a chance to try it, but not the predefined test drive (still can't believe VW are trying to sell me a car for commuting by piddling around on small town lanes). I also tend to run cruise for the dual carriage way bit and it does have a lot of people turning off, which I've heard is a bit of a weakness of the system, though it might help for the speed cameras where I have to keep knocking out of cruise because most people don't know what the speed limit is (where I just cruise at 70 - they overtake at 75-80, pull in front of me then suddenly brake down to 60 when they spot the cameras.. soo annoying if there's not room to go around them..)

How are you finding the SE over rough surfaces?

[herulach]

OK, like you'd expect a mid range golf to handle really. The only thing I will say is good is they're the best non-bucket seats I've been in (I've done nearly 10k in it since june so seat comfort = important).

[Saracen]

I hesitate to suggest it, but .... perhaps you need to be a bit more, erm, assertive.

I can understand a dealer wanting to use a demo car rather than a brand new model, but personally, no way would I buy a second-hand car, whether dealer or private, without giving it a comprehensive test drive, and for a second-hand car, in the exact, specific car, not a 'demo', never mind a different model.

So, providing I was serious about a specific vehicle, if the dealer tried to put me in a different car, I'd stick to my guns and insist on the car I was interested in, and if they still baulked, I'd ask where the nearest other Audi dealer is ... or do I need to look it up on the web?

I mean, do they want to sell the car or not?

One thing. I do not place any reliance on a given dealer, even for relatively upmarket cars, actually being good at customer service. Some are much, MUCH better than others. So .... perhaps actually try a different dealer. Or, if you think it's a poor saleman, ring the dealer principal and explain what happened and ask if he/she regards that as acceptable. Unless they get a bit annoyed with their staff, it'd tell me all I need to know about that dealer, which is not to deal with them. If they're like that when you're trying to buy a car, what will they be like if you have problems after you've bought it?

I must admit to not having been for any test drives recently. But when I have, there's never been any pressure to have limited test drives. I've had everything from a run around local roads, to an afternoon on my own with the car, to an offer of a loan for the weekend. And that latter was a 911 Turbo.

[kalniel]

I hesitate to suggest it, but .... perhaps you need to be a bit more, erm, assertive.

Yes, this is a fair point. I was being polite in the knowledge that if I don't get to satisfy my requirements then I'll just walk away. I want to buy a car now, but mine has just passed its MOT for another 12 months so it's not like I'm left high and dry.

I can understand a dealer wanting to use a demo car rather than a brand new model, but personally, no way would I buy a second-hand car, whether dealer or private, without giving it a comprehensive test drive, and for a second-hand car, in the exact, specific car, not a 'demo', never mind a different model.

So, providing I was serious about a specific vehicle, if the dealer tried to put me in a different car, I'd stick to my guns and insist on the car I was interested in, and if they still baulked, I'd ask where the nearest other Audi dealer is ... or do I need to look it up on the web?

Yeah - to be fair the Audi person gave the impression of wanting to help, they just seemed to not know enough about the cars - they appeared to genuinely believe that there was no material difference in the cars I was trying. They were also quite busy which curtailed sales rep time, despite me booking the slot a week in advance. [edit: ah, just looked my rep up - she is a trainee, which may explain some of it]

I mean, do they want to sell the car or not?

Quite. I got the impression neither were hugely fussed, especially VW (and I was the only customer in the showroom, unlike Audi who were buzzing).

One thing. I do not place any reliance on a given dealer, even for relatively upmarket cars, actually being good at customer service. Some are much, MUCH better than others. So .... perhaps actually try a different dealer. Or, if you think it's a poor saleman, ring the dealer principal and explain what happened and ask if he/she regards that as acceptable. Unless they get a bit annoyed with their staff, it'd tell me all I need to know about that dealer, which is not to deal with them. If they're like that when you're trying to buy a car, what will they be like if you have problems after you've bought it?

I will be trying this, at least for the purchasing side of things as there are several Audi dealers within striking distance (though this one is within walking distance so would have been convenient!). VW I think I've got to get a different sales rep and if they still don't allow a decent test drive then I'll complain to head office.

I must admit to not having been for any test drives recently. But when I have, there's never been any pressure to have limited test drives. I've had everything from a run around local roads, to an afternoon on my own with the car, to an offer of a loan for the weekend. And that latter was a 911 Turbo.

Perhaps I just look shifty, despite bringing the wife Or maybe they think that because I'm running a 100,000+ mile car now I'm not really serious about buying a new or nearly new car.

[Zak33]

Audi... nearly all owned and controlled by big dealer groups... and with no ability to show love to real people.

the reason Saab lasted so long was mopping up Audi punters by showing some love, and knowing their model range

There's no solution bud... when you're as popular as Audi, and people think it's "the" car to own, they can be rubbish and still sell.


you should see the mystery shops video's .......

what else is on the list? apart from Tutonic sheep followers?

[Zak33]

just German? just Audi and VW?

Have you driven a Mondeo or an Insignia?

Toyota? VOLVO?

[kalniel]

what else is on the list? apart from Tutonic sheep followers?

Top other is probably Mazda 3 fastback, if I can get over lack of DAB - and it's not planned to get one any time soon either. They do have some kind of phone linky thing - though I've never owned a smartphone. The cost saving might be enough to budget for a phone+data I guess, don't know if it'd count as tethering or not if going through their official car app :/

2015 model focus estate.. but ford have crap engines for my uses at the moment, and I don't have any real belief the new 1.5l ones will be much better

Astra 5 door 1.6cdti - lovely engine, rest of car lets it down for me as chassis a bit behind the times. Might wait for the 2016 model though talk is of cost cutting rather more than bringing it up to competition standards.

[DanceswithUnix]

So I want the impossible blend of absolute refinement plus OK handling (doesn't have to be racey or full of feel, just not wallowy).

Tyre choice can have a big influence on that. That might be all you need to look at.

If you have huge wheels with something the thickness of a rubber band stretched around it, then I suggest regular dental checks to make sure your fillings haven't actually been rattled out. My car has 16" wheels with tyres that next to the wife's 19" ones look like space hoppers. But my car is the one that easily soaks up the miles. Suspension on the cars is very similar to the point of sharing a lot if not all parts in common.

[Zak33]

DAB ? I have DAB.. totally utterly useless unless you live and work in the same place... for me doing 300 to 400 per day across numerous counties.. totally useless. Spend more time on FM

[DanceswithUnix]

They do have some kind of phone linky thing - though I've never owned a smartphone. The cost saving might be enough to budget for a phone+data I guess, don't know if it'd count as tethering or not if going through their official car app :/

I think that is the way stuff is going. I mostly listen to music from my phone sent over BlueTooth. I know others who stream music from the cloud rather than listen to radio, though that costs a bit on phone data allowance. I also find myself increasingly using the phone as my satnav as the maps are more up to date and Google Maps has a navigation mode that is getting pretty good.

I suspect that is why DAB takeup is so bad, people are skipping that generation.

My son has a Moto E included for free on a Tesco £7.50/month contract with a usable 500MB data allowance. These things are getting really cheap.

If there is an app involved, I presume it is a remote desktop sharing type system rather than tethering?

[kalniel]

Tyre choice can have a big influence on that. That might be all you need to look at.

If you have huge wheels with something the thickness of a rubber band stretched around it, then I suggest regular dental checks to make sure your fillings haven't actually been rattled out. My car has 16" wheels with tyres that next to the wife's 19" ones look like space hoppers. But my car is the one that easily soaks up the miles. Suspension on the cars is very similar to the point of sharing a lot if not all parts in common.

The Golf had 16" wheels and was transmitting the surface too much. The Audis had 17" and harder suspension but were better about surface (just shame about bumps).

It felt like the Golf had very stiff tyre walls or overinflated tyres - actually remarkably similar to trying a car with low profile wheels. I didn't clock the tyre models though unfortunately - may go back for another test. The other thing it might be was the steering wheel artificially trying to transmit surface 'feel' and ending up exaggerating it while being too light - there maybe some setup options to reduce that.

I think that is the way stuff is going. I mostly listen to music from my phone sent over BlueTooth. I know others who stream music from the cloud rather than listen to radio, though that costs a bit on phone data allowance. I also find myself increasingly using the phone as my satnav as the maps are more up to date and Google Maps has a navigation mode that is getting pretty good.

I suspect that is why DAB takeup is so bad, people are skipping that generation.

My son has a Moto E included for free on a Tesco £7.50/month contract with a usable 500MB data allowance. These things are getting really cheap.

If there is an app involved, I presume it is a remote desktop sharing type system rather than tethering?

Yeah I'm not sure - I think it's a 'cloud' app so would stream from their own servers.. I don't know if that includes internet radio options from my choice or if they have their own tracks that I'd have to choose from.

http://infotainment.mazdahandsfree.c...anguage=en-EU#
http://infotainment.mazdahandsfree.c...language=en-EU

I'm confused. I realise this makes me old, but hey. Also I want this to still be served in 8 years, I have a worry they'll just turn off the service some day.

Sorry Zak, missed a post: Mondeo/Insignia too big. Volvo too many horror stories of repairs/electrics. Toyota.. can't think of any redeeming features outside of reliability.

[BobF64]

I was considering Leons until I discovered the 150ps model has only basic rear suspension.

I know the pain, my Type R doesnt seem to have suspension at all when on rough roads.