I'm parking alone....please don't park next to me!

[RobinXe]

What if car parks had alternating arrows painted in each space, so that you had to park alternately facing in/out of the space?

At the end of the day, the only person who has to get in/out of the car in the space is the driver, anyone else can do it out of the space, so this would mean there was always maximum space between drivers' doors. You could even make the spaces narrower, and leave alternate hatched areas for the opening of doors.

Yes, I know that loading young children is an issue, but most car parks seem to have extra-wide 'family' spots now, don't they?

Of course, the success of this idea is predicated on people having the driving ability to reverse into tighter parking spaces, close enough on the passenger's side. So maybe I'm on to a loser from the get-go!

[Noxvayl]

It is a nice thought, creative if nothing else, but I agree with your assessment at the end... more than likely a losing idea.

The minimum parking space should be bigger, not just enough to fit a car, including wing mirrors, into the space. It seems that the space is thought of as only enough for the footprint of the car, no concern for getting in and out of it.

I would be happy parking next to people in bigger spaces, but I wonder if Mr Knoxville or Zak33 would still want to park away from others?

[UseItNow]

Just come back to this thread, see some developments.

On Knox's post: Great MINDS! Creative Parking!

LOL, did the same thing in 2 places I visit often where parking spaces are non-existent or perhaps erm..."not to our liking" . Yep, you guessed it, they're always occupied now!

[DanceswithUnix]

The minimum parking space should be bigger, not just enough to fit a car, including wing mirrors, into the space. It seems that the space is thought of as only enough for the footprint of the car, no concern for getting in and out of it.

But when those minimum parking space recommendations were originally drafted the standard family car was probably a 1.4m wide Ford Anglia. These days the equivalent Focus is 1.8m wide. If you made parking spaces wider, cars will just lard up to fill them.

Reminds me of the Simpsons...

Twelve yards long two lanes wide,
Sixty five tons of American pride.
Canyonero...
Canyonero...

[Noxvayl]

I highly doubt cars will get to the American extremes in this country, the roads are too small. That being said the roads are still able to accommodate the cars of today while parking spaces don't do as well. Once a decision is made, which I agree was likely done with much smaller cars in mind, it mustn't be left the same without revisiting it. For me the size can stay the same, but there needs to be a minimum of 0.2m between each space to allow for safe exit.

Perhaps one day we will have doors that open out slightly and then slide above the vehicle, that would solve the problem of cars parked too close and make entering and exiting the car easier.

[DanceswithUnix]

I highly doubt cars will get to the American extremes in this country, the roads are too small.

Whereas I don't see any halt to the increase in size.

[Noxvayl]

Whereas I don't see any halt to the increase in size.

I don't understand why though... The Landrover 110 has been the same size since 1983, if anything SUVs are made in the mould of the Defenders girth. Other cars I grew up with are a similar size to cars in the same category today, Vauxhall Senator from the 80s is pretty much the same size as the Vauxhall Insignia today.

If anything cars are dormant size wise with the sharing of chassis technology, there is mainly changing on the inside between manufacturers with the odd facelift on the outside. No trends for bigger sizes in my lifetime, as far as I am aware.

[DanceswithUnix]

I don't understand why though... The Landrover 110 has been the same size since 1983, if anything SUVs are made in the mould of the Defenders girth. Other cars I grew up with are a similar size to cars in the same category today, Vauxhall Senator from the 80s is pretty much the same size as the Vauxhall Insignia today.

If anything cars are dormant size wise with the sharing of chassis technology, there is mainly changing on the inside between manufacturers with the odd facelift on the outside. No trends for bigger sizes in my lifetime, as far as I am aware.

I would say the Landrover is rather specialist, so not really part of the trend.

Insignia is spot on though. That is the successor to the Vectra, which followed the Cavalier. The Senator was replaced with the Omega. Now that Senator line is dead, the Cavalier line has grown to a size larger than the Omega, and a car bigger than that doesn't work in Europe so they dropped it.

Hence I think if for example parking spaces were made larger, then bigger cars would be workable, and they would appear.

Have you ever seen a new "mini" parked next to an original, or a new Fiat 500 parked next to one of the old ones? There are no small cars any more, even things like the Yaris are 1000kg of wide lump.

So maybe you are right, gull wing and sliding doors might start really taking off soon.

[RobinXe]

I can't find it now, but I remember seeing a video of someone who had parked like an a-hole over the line in a Chelsea tractor. A convertible driver parked right up next to his driver's door, climbed out over the back, hit the 'roof close' button on his remote key, and walked off.

The shame of it was that the video didn't roll until the first driver came back and tried to get into their truck!

[Noxvayl]

I would say the Landrover is rather specialist, so not really part of the trend.

Insignia is spot on though. That is the successor to the Vectra, which followed the Cavalier. The Senator was replaced with the Omega. Now that Senator line is dead, the Cavalier line has grown to a size larger than the Omega, and a car bigger than that doesn't work in Europe so they dropped it.

Hence I think if for example parking spaces were made larger, then bigger cars would be workable, and they would appear.

Have you ever seen a new "mini" parked next to an original, or a new Fiat 500 parked next to one of the old ones? There are no small cars any more, even things like the Yaris are 1000kg of wide lump.

So maybe you are right, gull wing and sliding doors might start really taking off soon.

I think the reason for that width of current "small" cars is safety, its not possible to meet the safety requirements without having the extra padding in the car; cars are no longer simple shells so it is impossible to go back to good old small cars without sacrificing safety, which is unacceptable by our cultures standards.

I really hope sliding/gull wing type doors become more popular, they are so much more practical in every way that matters to me.

[Knoxville]

I don't understand why though... The Landrover 110 has been the same size since 1983, if anything SUVs are made in the mould of the Defenders girth.

Not really, even when they're other SUV's made by Land Rover that's not the case....

On the left is my motor, which is so close in dimensions to a Defender it has Defender parts bolted to it. On the right is a Range Rover Sport, bear in mind, not the full fat Range Rover L322...



The "smaller" sportier Range Rover is wider, longer and would almost be as tall if mine wasn't wearing it's roof rack. SUV's these days aren't made in the Defenders mould but lean towards the American market where size isn't an issue. Just look at the difference between a Discovery 1 and a Disco 4. The new model is mammoth by comparison!

[Noxvayl]

I don't disagree with that, but those changes are due to safety requirements. Why do you think the Defender is being redesigned? Nothing to do with making it better, it becomes illegal to sell soon.

As safety requirements become part of a cars specification, and people want the same space on the inside when using the vehicle, the only solution possible is to make them fatter to give that cushioning safety we all feel so good about.

The old Defender 110 that I grew up driving could sit 3 at the front and back, the Land Rover Discovery 3 we replaced it with was a similar width with barely enough place for 3 people on the back seat. Cars are far from becoming the ridiculous size Americans have, not in Europe or Africa. I think concerns of that nature are not fitting with the trend I have grown up with since the 90s, in South Africa where we have the space which you guys have zero of.

I come from loads of space, and cars are not bigger over there, they are the same size as here. America is an exception, as is often the case. Normal is not something worth thinking about in the context of America, with anything really.

[SeriousSam]

http://www.urinalman.com/

Slips back quietly into the shadows like a wrinkly ninja...

[DanceswithUnix]

I don't disagree with that, but those changes are due to safety requirements.

That must be a part of it, but I think that more distorts the shape than forces the car much larger. Adding side impact protection makes a door heavier as you are adding metal, but not much wider. The bonnet line is raised so that pedestrians don't push the bonnet down onto engine. Never quite understood that though, even in the 70's before they designed cars with this stuff in mind you almost always survived the first car, it was the fact you were lying in the road when the second car hit that killed you.

I think another element is that we are not as slim a population as we used to be.

Perhaps elbow room helps sell cars?

Whatever the reason, a Toyota Aygo is the same width as a Morris Marina saloon/estate.

I get the impression that the front tractor part of an articulated lorry is designed so that without the trailer it classes as the biggest size car you can get away with. That could be another way out, make sure your door open above the roof line of the cars around you

[Noxvayl]

The chairs used in cars today are also very different, more comfortable and able to prevent you moving side to side when driving aggressively. Most things I think of in terms of car size I seem to get back to safety in some way. I guess boot space is something at least some people like in a car as well; I like to get golf clubs in without taking drivers out so anything thinner would be a pain for me. Elbow room though, no idea; perhaps we've taken a cue from our lounge furniture and put in some armrests and never looked back, it does seem to take up a fair amount of space which I never use as a driver.

Thinking about it, I would find cars smaller than current Smart, Fiat 500, Toyota Aygo and the like to be crazy. I would not want to drive those on the motorway and would be hesitant to let someone driving something like that near me on the motorway as well, wind can get them to change lane too easily; I get annoyed with high winds in a Jazz which is bad enough.

I wouldn't mind seeing a thinner car developed that can fit only 4 people without the large centre console, that could shave a fair amount off the cars width. I don't think we'd do so well shortening the distance though, not a fan of small engines or losing lots of boot space.

While I'm on the topic of cars, why oh why are there token seats in the back of some sports cars? I don't even... what the hell. No-one can sit in them, and not even children should be in that space. It may as well be boot space rather than a waste of leather, foam and effort putting it in. I like the cars that have a mid engine so that space becomes unusable, at least they aren't wasting the space trying to make the car look like it can take more than 2 people in it, when it can't.

It would be interesting to see what goes into the design of a car these days, to see what they are thinking about and how that relates to what I see in terms of preferences for buying a car.

[DanceswithUnix]

It would be interesting to see what goes into the design of a car these days, to see what they are thinking about and how that relates to what I see in terms of preferences for buying a car.

I think they are too busy worrying about NCAP ratings and engine emissions targets to consider anything that would interest me in buying a car.

Honestly, I can't think of a modern car I really want.