Your views on N2O

[Big RICHARD]

Originally posted by Eazieb
A little bit more info for you all (long threads, but the info is good
)

http://www.noswizard.com/bboard/view...44&forum=1&254

&

http://www.noswizard.com/bboard/view...84&forum=1&250

Does noswizard think he's an engineer? Does he know how N2O works?

[Big RICHARD]

http://www.noswizard.com/bboard/view...c=1284&forum=1


Surely you'd need an explosive sticker because the decomposition of N2O to Nitrogen and oxygen occurs at approximately 400 deg. Celcius and this process if highly explosive. (Thinking if there is an accident where a car catches fire.) Also if the car is on fire then the oxygen released will react with the remaining petrol making a very large explosion even larger......

[schrickvr6]

for a long time i couldn't decide what to do with my vr6,i've always loved n/a cars but was very tempted by a turbo or supercharger,nos was never a consideration.

a turbo would have been nice and at the time the offputing thing was the cost,about £4000 for the stage 1.traction would also have been a problem trying to put down between 400-500bhp through the front wheels.

next option was a vortech supercharger and at about £2000 this was looking a pretty cheap option,this would give 270bhp +.the first thing that put me off was an extra 100bhp with no internal engine mods,not even a thicker head gasket
.after driving a corrado with a z-engineering charger i didn't like the all or nothing power delivery,they also don't like high revs at all and will die in a hurry if you do,regular maintanence needed is another big offput.

so in the end i decided normally aspirated was the only way to go,currently running 276bhp@ 7400rpm,280lb/ft torque and revving to 8200rpm,at the moment im waiting on a vw motorsport exhaust manifold which could give me anything upto another 15bhp.

anyway the moral of my ramble is i've always believed that a n/a car of a given power and weight will beat a forced induction car of similar power and weight and was proved right at a castle combe track day,a guy from club vr6 has a supercharged golf synchro with what he reckons has 320bhp,he couldn't stay with me around the bends or down the straight,neither could an rs4

[IainB]

Originally posted by Big RICHARD
Does noswizard think he's an engineer? Does he know how N2O works?

Errrr - I would have thought so (hes been in the business 30 years IIRC)... did you read through both threads I posted?
Why not post and ask him, as im not so hot on the scientific reasoning about what would happen in the event of an accident.
Not meant as a flame, just that I cant answer the question

[wol]

Originally posted by Lowe
That's not a bad idea actually. Imagine how that would change the races!

Imagine the reliability problems they'd have then!


I think its good for when you need it, on a progressive (maybe antilag) style rather than sudden shots of power.

Would be nice on the SD1


Wol

[chip]

Nitrous is actually among the safest ways to increase the power of your engine actaully.

To think about how any form of tuning increases power, you first need to think about the engine in very basic terms.

An engine is an airpump, simple as that, the more oxygen it can get into it, then the more fuel it can burn and hence the more power it can create.

There are fundamentally 2 different ways of getting more oxygen into an engine in conventional tuning:
increase the effiency of the engine
increase the number of revs the engine is going to


Now headwork would fall into the first category, it allows the engine to breathe more effectively, so at the same number of revs it can consume more air than it did before.

Cams would fall into the second category

A turbo would be in first category, BUT with a horrible downside, HEAT, with a turbo you cram more air in, but boyles law (PV=nRT) dictates that air is going to be hot.

Now anyone who knows much about engines will tell you that the hotter the charge on the way in, the less power you are going to make.


Nitrous systems on the other hand inject a liquid source of oxygen at high pressure into the manifold, when this liquid is no longer pressurised (ie as it enters the engine) it boils off into a gas, and to do this it absorbs huge amounts of heat from its surroundings, this has a quite dramatic effect on the intake to the engine, it actually cools the charge very significantly.

So in very basic terms, if you think of nitrous as working much like a turbo but removing heat rather than adding it, you can picture how it might effect the power that is SAFELY available from an engine.

At any given compression ratio on any given engine you can create more power from nitrous than you can with any turbo or supercharger, significantly more.


The downside of nitrous is the bottle doesnt last very long at all, a matter of a couple of minutes, and then its 25 quid to refill it again (well for a 5lb bottle in the uk anyway).
For people who just want to put their foot down now and then with a huge increase in power for not a lot of money it really is the perfect mod, if you want to cruise down an autobahn at 200mph though its a bad idea as you would empty the bottle in just a few miles.

For anyone interested in RWYB events though its perfect, you drive your car in its normal state of tune 99.9% of the time, and then when you are on the track you have 50% (or whatever) more power.


hope that helps



Chip

[chip]

PS

To answer the questions people were asking about "nos wizard"

YES he does think he is an engineer, which is how he has managed to design the best nitrous solenoids in the world today, they are a lightyear ahead of the american systems, and even the yank companies know this, they reguarly pay for him to go over there and help them with their development, but sadly they are unable to replicate the quality of the systems that he produces in the uk because they are too worried about the profit they make at the same time as keeping the price competitive, if they made solenoids to the same standard as the wizards of nos ones they would either have to put their prices up dramatically or reduce their profit margins dramatically, neither of which would be good news for the economically.
Nitrous Express actually used to sell wizards of nos controllers in their own box branded as an NX controller, but because they couldnt get the profit margins they wanted they have now switched to an alternative (and inferior) supplier, this is not something that wizards of nos would even consider, trevor (the wizard) is NOT a businessman in my opinion, he is an engineer and an enthusiast, and he makes everything to a standard not to a price, the hard truth is that he would sooner go out of business than sell a product he isnt happy with, he is not trying to make money, he is trying to earn recognition for his products, thats far more important to him, we're all driven by different forces and in Trevs case its a (quite arrogant actaully, but at the same time correct to be honest) belief that people should recognise his product designs as the most advanced in the world.

The thing i find ridiculous is that some people in this country are stupid enough to buy a cheap american kit instead of a wizards of nos kit when due to shipping and import tax bein added to the cheap american kit they actually end up costing us the same in the uk as the far superior uk made kits!

I guess its just a sign of the general ignorance of the general public when it comes to the relevant quality of the different makes, the american stuff is certainly marketed better so i guess to the man on the street that means it is better.


Chip

[schrickvr6]

At any given compression ratio on any given engine you can create more power from nitrous than you can with any turbo or supercharger, significantly more

you sound like you know what you are talking about but are you sure about this statement??the most reccomended for my vr6 would be 2x 25bhp jets which can give up to an extra 70 odd bhp,a bolt on charger would give an increase of around 100bhp,and a cheapy turbo kit that retains standard compression ratio you will get about a 150bhp increase.or what about a big turbo engine with lowered compression?if you removed the turbo could you really achieve the same output with nitrous?

i'm not saying your wrong but i'd just like to hear the reasoning behind that statement

[chip]

Whoever told you that your VR6 can only take 50bhp is talking nonsense, you can happily run several times that if you use a controller.

The thing to remember is that you cant go inserting 150bhp inone big hit at 2000rpm or whatever as it would result in about 400lbft of torque extra, which just isnt going to happen obviously on a standard engine.


Chip

[Rave]

Originally posted by schrickvr6
you sound like you know what you are talking about but are you sure about this statement??the most reccomended for my vr6 would be 2x 25bhp jets which can give up to an extra 70 odd bhp,a bolt on charger would give an increase of around 100bhp,and a cheapy turbo kit that retains standard compression ratio you will get about a 150bhp increase.or what about a big turbo engine with lowered compression?if you removed the turbo could you really achieve the same output with nitrous?

i'm not saying your wrong but i'd just like to hear the reasoning behind that statement

:/ it's a slightly confusing thing to say. He's saying that at any given maximum pressure in the cylinder during the cycle you can get more power with Nitrous, which is true, as you get a very powerful burn. This is relevant because the maximum pressure an engine can tolerate depends on the quality of the head gasket/cylinder studs/rods/pistons etc.

If you're talking about compression ratio as it's correctly defined (I.E. the ratio of the total volume of the cylinder at BDC : volume at TDC) then it's not true. Those 1.5ltr 1000HP F1 engines from the mid 80s had compression ratios of 8:1 or so IIRC which is probably lower than your Mum's Micra.....

Rich :¬)

[Miss MoneyPenny]

It’s a given that if you modify an engine, in any way, it’s reliability longevity are going to suffer. However, as has been mentioned, you can prolong this ‘suffering’ by doing things sensibly. For example: if you bolt a turbo onto a Clio 16v engine, you add a fifth fuel injector. Makes sense. If you own a standard Clio 16v and add a 25-50bhp jet kit of nitrous, I see no reason, with proper maintenance and execution control that your engine will just as long. Sensible, short shots and you’re laughing. [Orrff…forgive the pun! ]

However, you’d have to have lost your Captain Sensible hat if you think your 1.2 Clio is going to last more than a day with some 100+ jets pointing at it. It won’t. From my experience cars running around with 75+ direct injection set-ups have had the innards, clutch, and ‘box modifications for the engine to last, as you would when fitting a turbo, supercharger, etc.

However, as pointed out, spend £700 on a Saxo, and get a 50 bhp ish, increase. Spend the £700 on a full exhaust and filter, and you’ll not see a quarter of that. Yes, it’s got an idiot image, but that will always be there. Use it sensibly, and it’s one of the best things to come along for car modifiers…ever.

Heh. Although, you’ll have to be a bit creative when it comes to getting a reasonable premium.

s: Maybe ten years ago, you could have used the turbo lag argument. Not anymore. Take Saabs. Full boost at what? 1,800rpm? Crazy.

[[GSV]Trig]

If they hit full boost at 1800 when do they run out tho, small enuf to spool up quickly but run outta puff at higher revs...

[Miss MoneyPenny]

I'm pretty sure they maintain their peak torque throughout the useful rev range. You don't buy a Saab if you want to race around everywhere, more so for useable power throughout the rev range. But I think they get good torque right up to 5,500-5,800. Don't quote me on that though.

[Punky]

Originally posted by Russ
lol, read that threw.

Hiya Pot, ya big black thing you,

eh!??!

[sdp]

There's an article in this months Minimag about nos, it's got some nice photos of it installed n its worth a look next time any of yous in Smiths.