In Car Entertainment

[Allen]

Any ICE guru's here? Am gonna be getting a car soon (finally!!) and will be looking to spend a few hundred on some decent music. I don't want an over the top, street racer, eardrum splitting setup, but would like to listen to some decent tunes.

I've been talking with some Focus owners, as this is the car I'll hopefully be getting (a Focus Zetec 1.6i to be exact) and I know a few basics. Apparantly, Infinity 5x9's fit straight into the front doors without any need of modification so I'll be getting those as I'm told they're extremely good for £65. I also know I need to get some decent 12 gauge silver-coated speaker cable and I know which facia kit and ISO adaptor I need.

All I need help with is which sub (12") and amp (?) should I consider to get some decent bass, as I listen to quite a range of music. Possibly looking at £200-300 for the both. I know nothing about amps and the technical jargon just confuses me tbh...

The amp will be needed to power the Infinity's and the sub and will be running off a Pioneer DEH-P7600MP. Any suggestions will be gratefully appreciated.

[TeePee]

Firstly, think twice about your cabling. Replacing the wiring to your front speakers can be a very involved job, depending on the car, for very little benefit. Certainly I wouldn't reccomend spending a ton of cash on silver-plated wiring to the detriment of other components.

When it comes to amps, make sure you are comparing like with like. The only power rating worth comparing is RMS power output. Many cheaper amps will quote the peak power which should be ignored. I've seen 1000W (tm) amps with a single 10A fuse.

The brands seem to have changed a great deal since I bought my gear. I have a Phoenix Gold amp, but in the last 6-7 years Pheonix Gold has gone from being one of the best brands to building monstrosities of plastic and blue LEDs that would only appeal to the most chav of buyer.

As for subs, avoid the cheap end of the market (and make sure you pick a round one ) and you'll do OK. Whats more important is the enclosure. Avoid bandpass boxes, and make sure it's the right size if ported or sealed.

[schmunk]

As Rave would tell you (although I'm not sure he ever comes in here), expensive (even down to quite cheap) speaker cable is just not worth the money, as the bandwidth of audible frequencies means that you'll see no benefit from carbon-fibre wrapped, quantum energy sealed, proto-gold double-dipped ultra cables, except as something to talk to other 'audiophiles' about.

[Butuz]

Well im in the process of planing the ICE for my datsun.

Ive decided, i think, to completeley rip out the original stereo, cd changer, speakers and cables, install 2 new component speakers in the front and either 1x8" sub in the boot, or 2 x 6.5" subs in the rear door pockets, and to power it via a new amp of some kind i aint sure on the make, and then to supply music from a 40gb mp3 player mounted on my dash board. As ive now got almost all of my CD's ripped to MP3 it makes sense to have my whole CD collection with me in the car

Butuz

[Barakka]

Right, first off the headunit - nice choice, in order to power the speakers it needs a pre-out, the one you've chosen has three - Front, Back, and Sub - ideal

So you'll be using the Front and Sub pre-outs for amplification purposes which means you'll need to run RCA cables from the head unit to the amp(s). You'll also have to run a power lead (from the battery) and a switch lead (from the headunit) to tell the amp when to turn on. These can be run together, the tales about running them on opposite sides are tosh.

Amplifiers - you have two pre-outs you need to amplify so you can either have two amps (1 stereo, 1 mono) or a multi-channel. The two amp idea will mean you can better match the amplifier output to the power hadling of the speakers and sub respectively, BUT you stand more chance of problems with noise, earthing issues etc. with two amps.

The easiest option is to use a muti-channel amp. For your needs you would run a four channel and bridge two channels together i.e. if the amp is 4 x 80W you can run it as 2 x 80W + 1 x 200W or something similar. This would have the same effect as running two seperate amps. You could also do the same with a 6 channel amp if say you wanted two subs and have say 2 x 80W + 2 x 200W.

Most multichannel amps can be run in this way BUT NOT ALL so check the specs - most will say what they can run in four way, three way, two way etc.

Powering an amp is crucial to the sound quality it produces, make sure you get the right gauge of power cable for the wattage of the amp. The +ve should be run direct from the battery and MUST be fused within a few inches of the battery. The -ve or is best earthed as close to the amplifier as possible, many people use pre-existing bolts under the rear seats (in small hatchbacks with the amp in the boot) and the contact point bust be cleaned up first removing any paint/grease etc..

Speakers and subs - not sure about the Infinities as I haven't seen/heard them - are they co-axials ? Subs are best heard first as the number of manufacturer/size permetations is huge, general rule on size - the larger the cone the deeper the bass. 8" subs give a crisp bass, 18" subs give headaches and nose bleeds - literally The volume of the sub is dependant on the quality/price/brand/amplification. Have a look round at the subs available then go and have a listen to them in a decent shop (Not Hellfrauds) and see what you think to them.

You also need to consider the box it will be going in and it may effect the choice of sub - some are free air (no box needed) and some are sealed (require a certain volume box to function best). Any ideas on the type of box you're after ?

Hope this helps

[Rave]

As Rave would tell you (although I'm not sure he ever comes in here)

<splutters> I come in a lot more than you, if you've not seen any of the numerous posts I make in this forum. Well said though. Unless the standard wire is very thin (and I mean sub-1mm core thickness) then rewiring will involve a lot of enpense and hassle for no benefit- and silver plated cables are ALWAYS a waste of money in ANY application.

For interconnects though, car audio is one of the few areas where spending more than a pound on a cable might be worthwhile; cars tend to have a lot of radio noise zinging about so an interconnect costing say £5-10 with good shielding might help to reject any interference. Even that won't be a huge difference though in all likelihood.

Rich :¬)

[Butuz]

Sureley though, replacing the bog standard bell wire with some reasonable quality oxygen free copper cable will yield results, after all oxygen does not conduct electricity?

Just dont go round buying $500 wooden knobs is all

Butuz

[Barakka]

Sureley though, replacing the bog standard bell wire with some reasonable quality oxygen free copper cable will yield results, after all oxygen does not conduct electricity?

When talking about car door speakers though it depends on what you're putting in there... if you're just replacing the standard speakers with some uprated ones then not really worth it. Especially with the way cars are wired these days...

I know on my car the cables are not "fed through" from the car into the door. There is a connector on the door edge where the wires are terminated, then a connector on the car body with a flexible piece joining them together. So running new wires means drilling holes in the body shell and in the door, having rubber grommits on each, and a piece of cable dangling between the door and body.

Very handy if you need a new door though, unbolt the old one and twist off the connector and the reverse to fit the new one, then locking, windows, speakers, mirrors all connected up.

edit: although if you're putting several/v.powerful speakers into the door then there's no option but to replace the standard stuff really...

[Rave]

Sureley though, replacing the bog standard bell wire with some reasonable quality oxygen free copper cable will yield results, after all oxygen does not conduct electricity?

Pretty much all cable is at least 99.9999% oxygen free. It's not hard to make copper very pure, I would imagine that pure copper is more ductile and hence easier to make into wires anyway. If you measure the resistance of the standard cable with a multimeter I would be amazed if it was more than 0.1ohm, and that's just not going to make any difference in the real world. The only problem would be if you were running a lot of current (and I mean a lot, the chances are even a big sub wouldn't cause a problem) through a thin wire; the slight resistance could cause the cable to heat up. That in turn would increase the resistance, thus increasing the heat further, and the cable could get dangerously hot. That's why you should use a reasonably thick cable to get power from the battery to the amp. For a pair of door speakers it really isn't an issue.

Rich :¬)

[Allen]

Thanks for the responses so far...

OK, well the head unit choice was made by two factors;

It plays MP3's
It looks good

I have no idea about pre-outs etc so that's lucky! As for the front doors, I'll just be using the Infinity's, nothing else. They're coaxials, right? Won't the cables just run from the existing head unit to the door, so I'll need to lay more cables anyway to get the output from the new head unit to the amp in the boot, then back down to the speakers in the doors, won't I?

Sub wise, I wan't clean, crisp bass, so perhaps getting either an 8" or 10" rather than a 12" would be a good idea? What would you recommend? I head JL Audio are OK...

Finally, amp wise, as far as I can tell, I'll need a 4 channel amp and use two channels for the front left and front right (stereo) and bridge the other 2 channels into 1 mono for the sub. Is that correct, or am I way off the line? What RCA cables are needed for the amp and power cables and fuse etc. Are these sold as a pack anywhere if they're all standard?

Cheers for the help guys!

[schmunk]

<splutters> I come in a lot more than you, if you've not seen any of the numerous posts I make in this forum.

My apologies - I do a lot more lurking than posting, but I didn't really associate you with this forum, more with hexus.a/v / hexus.bargains / hexus.general chap.

I bow before your greater post count (although you may be aware that there is a 'Senior Member' who has not yet been on the board ten days... )

[Barakka]

As for the front doors, I'll just be using the Infinity's, nothing else. They're coaxials, right?

Co-axials are where there is more than one speaker - i.e. a mid/bass speaker with a seperate tweeter in the middle. I would imagine they are, most oval speakers are co-axial. Does the Focus not have tweeters in the dash or doors then ?

Won't the cables just run from the existing head unit to the door, so I'll need to lay more cables anyway to get the output from the new head unit to the amp in the boot, then back down to the speakers in the doors, won't I?

You have two choices really; either power the front speakers off the headunit using the existing cabling, or power them from an amp in the boot with the extra cabling.

If you power them from the headunit you need to bear in mind the puny output from the headunit will only be about 11W p/channel RMS (I know it quotes 50Wx4 but it will really put out around 11Wx4).

If you're ugrading the speakers (which you are) then you really should amp them to get the best from them (underpowering is as bad as overpowering) and you're running the cabling for the amp for the sub anyway so it's only a couple of speaker wires extra. From the amp to the doors, or at least where the speaker wires leave the car heading for the doors.

Sub wise, I wan't clean, crisp bass, so perhaps getting either an 8" or 10" rather than a 12" would be a good idea? What would you recommend? I head JL Audio are OK...

I don't have a sub myself but anyone will tell you the same you really do need to go in and listen to them. I've toyed with the idea of a sub many times and I really do like the sound from the JL Audio kit... Sony's a bit boomy and should come with a baseball cap, but find a decent car audio shop and go in for a listen. They will be able to let you hear the difference between 8"/10"/12" in single and double setups and the different manufacturers - it's worth trying a couple of shops as each will have different setups and manufacturers on display. You don't have to buy it from them Although if you mention that you want amp, sub, and front speakers some can be quite competitive.

Finally, amp wise, as far as I can tell, I'll need a 4 channel amp and use two channels for the front left and front right (stereo) and bridge the other 2 channels into 1 mono for the sub. Is that correct, or am I way off the line? What RCA cables are needed for the amp and power cables and fuse etc. Are these sold as a pack anywhere if they're all standard?

Spot on with the 4 channel amp with 2 channels bridged. The cables are either/or really you can buy packs or you can buy them individually, again have a look in the shops and see what they recommend, as with home hifi you can spend £500 on a piece of cable if you wanted, but you're not wanting 5000W or anything so i'd say you probably need to spend about £20-40 on cables, maybe a kit.. I think maplins and CPC do kits once you know which amp you're getting. For a decent cheap amp have a look at the JBL GTO-4000, it's cheap as and from all i've heard sounds decent for the price. Also don't forget to think about the box for the sub.. if you need the boot have a look at SteathBoxes http://www.auto-acoustics.com/sbn-ff983.htm Pricey but nice.

Basically the first thing you need to do is familiarise yourself with what's out there, visit some shops and see the different setups you're offered and the different prices. Have a look on the web at the car audio sites like http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk It's worth the effort as the sound from car audio is personal so getting the right setup for you is vital - it's too easy to just buy what's cheap and get something that sounds like it belongs in a nova...