New (to me) car opinions, please!

[scaryjim]

A lot of you will have read about my Fiat Scudo, which it turns out I'm not going to have to maintain because she's beyond economic repair already. So, I'm considering possible replacements (and I'll be taking more advice, not cheaping out, and making sure I get a decent warranty this time!) and would like opinions on:

Honda FR-V?

Looks like there's quite a few available. Most common engines are the 1.8 I-VTEC and the 2.2 i-CTDi. It hits a lot of the right notes for our family (although it's a bit smaller than I'd like, but then, I'm not allowed to choose cars on my own any more ). A quick google suggests there's nothing awful, reputation-wise. Is either engine a particularly better choice (given that it's not a shopping runabout and will mostly be doing long runs)? Anything to watch out for?

And what about the Fiat Multipla?

There seem to be fewer of them about second-hand. Only seems to come in the 1.9 JTD, and given it was the 2.0 JTD in the Scudo that's just given out I'm hesitant, but also aware that the engines could easily have nothing significant in common.

[DanceswithUnix]

And what about the Fiat Multipla?

There seem to be fewer of them about second-hand. Only seems to come in the 1.9 JTD, and given it was the 2.0 JTD in the Scudo that's just given out I'm hesitant, but also aware that the engines could easily have nothing significant in common.

Different engine. Important on those is a recent cam belt change *with water pump* as the pump is driven off the cam belt so if it seizes you will have some horrible deja-vue. Otherwise, they are supposed to be one of the nicer diesel engines to drive.

[Gerrard]

I don't know if it will apply to the FR-V or not, but I had an '07 Civic with the 2.2 diesel engine, and a very common problem was the clutch to the point it was a standard fixed cost to fix (£550 a few years' ago). For some reason, Honda thought to fit the same clutch on both the petrol and diesel versions, but the torque on the diesels meant it would excessively wear out far too early. I think they were on their 3rd version by the time I sold my car (as the clutch started to slip but luckily the person who test drove it didn't realise!). I think Zak currently has one, so he can update if Honda finally fixed that.

[scaryjim]

... Honda thought to fit the same clutch on both the petrol and diesel versions, but the torque on the diesels meant it would excessively wear out far too early. ...

So, I test-drove a VTEC FR-V today. I can totally understand why the diesel engine kills the clutch. It's quite gradual - it doesn't really bite so much as feed in gently - and I imagine that doubling the amount of torque being put into it would wear it very quickly.

My partner also test drove it, and liked it, and since I'm no longer allowed to make purchasing decisions on car he got the final say … so we're now the proud owners of a 57-plate Honda FR-V 1.8i VTEC Full service history, engine really purrs, and the 12 month warranty was very reasonably priced so we took it. Picking her up on Friday, just in time for a long weekend in York.

[DanceswithUnix]

It's quite gradual - it doesn't really bite so much as feed in gently

I must say I like that about petrol engines. A lot of people like the "shove" that you get on every gear change in a diesel, it feels fast (though really isn't) but with passengers in the car it just feels rude.

Anyway sounds like you have a decent choice of vehicle there, hope it serves you well. I had a work colleague with an old Honda Accord which he said he was bored of and really wanted to change but he had intended to run it into the ground and the damned thing wouldn't die. Hopefully yours will be similarly reliable

[scaryjim]

... I had a work colleague with an old Honda Accord which he said he was bored of ...

If it drove like the FR-V I can kind of understand why - the test drive felt solid and reliable rather than sporty and exciting. OTOH we'll mostly use it for going on holiday and long weekends away, where the point is to get there comfortably rather than throw yourself aggressively into every bend you can find. I'll happily take boring for that kind of use!

To be fair, we'll probably run her until she stops running then not bother replacing her (as I've mentioned before on Hexus - probably a lot - my vehicle usage means hiring as necessary is far more economical), so fingers crossed she does indeed refuse to die

[Butcher]

I must say I like that about petrol engines. A lot of people like the "shove" that you get on every gear change in a diesel, it feels fast (though really isn't) but with passengers in the car it just feels rude.

Anyway sounds like you have a decent choice of vehicle there, hope it serves you well. I had a work colleague with an old Honda Accord which he said he was bored of and really wanted to change but he had intended to run it into the ground and the damned thing wouldn't die. Hopefully yours will be similarly reliable

To be fair that's not to do with the engine type, just how gentle the driver is on the clutch and/or how good they are at rev matching. You can make any engine butter smooth if you drive it right.

It sounds like the FR-V has a clutch release valve which stops you popping the clutch to fast, I can see that being an issue with a diesel as it effectively means the clutch drags on every gear change regardless of the driver.

[DanceswithUnix]

To be fair that's not to do with the engine type, just how gentle the driver is on the clutch and/or how good they are at rev matching. You can make any engine butter smooth if you drive it right.

It sounds like the FR-V has a clutch release valve which stops you popping the clutch to fast, I can see that being an issue with a diesel as it effectively means the clutch drags on every gear change regardless of the driver.

I wasn't talking about the clutch. I thought all modern diesels had dual mass clutches these days if not automatic, so no excuse for botching the clutch. It's just the power curve on the engine is massively more compressed on a diesel. With a low end gutless diesel that's fine, but even the 150bhp last car I had it was a bit of effort to rein it in when the car goes on boost and say I've got my mum in the car. Not saying it is hard, but it was effort which I just don't find I have to make when pootling around in a petrol car. No power at all until 2000rpm when the turbo kicks in and then it's all over at 2500rpm. In my petrol car that transition is from 1900rpm to about 6000, so you don't get that violent shove over 500rpm but overall it's quicker and easier to drive.

[MrJim]

And what about the Fiat Multipla?

I've had a Fiat Multipla for the past 13 years. I can offer you plenty of info from a user's perspective, but I'm afraid my technical knowledge is next to zero!

[scaryjim]

I've had a Fiat Multipla for the past 13 years. ...

Oooh, you'll have the ugly bug-eyed monster then? (no offence meant ).

That one was immediately vetoed by the other halves, but the newer body shape was on the list. Various things meant they ended up below the FR-V on the priority list though; not as many around, generally higher mileage, a quick google suggests they're likely to have more problems, and then there was this quote from the Honest John FR-V review:

like a Multipla, but with Honda quality.

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/honda/fr-v-2004/

[MrJim]

Oooh, you'll have the ugly bug-eyed monster then? (no offence meant ).

That one was immediately vetoed by the other halves, but the newer body shape was on the list. Various things meant they ended up below the FR-V on the priority list though; not as many around, generally higher mileage, a quick google suggests they're likely to have more problems, and then there was this quote from the Honest John FR-V review:


https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/honda/fr-v-2004/

Ha! No, mine doesn't have the bug-eyes! It's 2005 model, I think it was the first year of the new shape...

I would have gone for a Honda, given the choice. Mine's adapted for wheelchair access, and choice of vehicle with such a facility was quite limited at that time.

[scaryjim]

... Mine's adapted for wheelchair access, and choice of vehicle with such a facility was quite limited at that time.

Ah, yes - I imagine so. Don't think I've seen an adapter FR-V while I've been looking around, whereas you always get a couple on searches for the Multipla.

Of course, I'm currently in the frustrating position of having paid for a car but still waiting to drive it....

[DanceswithUnix]

Of course, I'm currently in the frustrating position of having paid for a car but still waiting to drive it....

Today I could have done with a boat, driving wasn't fun. Hopefully the weather will clear up for when you get your new toy.

[scaryjim]

Today I could have done with a boat, driving wasn't fun. Hopefully the weather will clear up for when you get your new toy.

Huh? It was a little bit miserable on Friday, but that's all the rain we've seen for pushing two weeks. Don't tell me there's been somewhere wetter than Manchester...

[Xlucine]

Huh? It was a little bit miserable on Friday, but that's all the rain we've seen for pushing two weeks. Don't tell me there's been somewhere wetter than Manchester...

Most places have been, by the looks of it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c26xdmnee19t/floods

Soton had some pretty heavy showers through the day, I haven't seen any flooding but then again I'm on a hill so it's never my problem

[Butcher]

Bonus of Manchester, we don't get much flooding. Well until some bright spark builds on all the Mersey flood plains...