So I just did a rally experience

[kalniel]

It's winter, snow has just caked the south.. what better conditions for a rally experience??

I've never done any kind of motorsport experience before, but we reckoned a rally one was going to be better than a supercar one where you don't really get to rag a car - rule #2 of the rally experience was 'rag the car' Rule #1 was have fun.. and I certainly did!

The car in question was a Toyota GT86 fitted with rally suspension and tyres, and the fuse pulled on traction control, ESC and ABS. And yes, RWD is a horrible choice for rally, even more so on ice/snow coated mud/gravel. There was a FWD pug also on the courses and it was on average 5 seconds a stage quicker (~10%). But it was a great environment for testing car control.

In terms of the stages (track), there were two stages, one a narrow technical one largely slushy mud and gravel, and the other a wider mostly tarmac one, which was snow/slush covered. Both were cut into the hillside so had a lot of elevation changes and off camber corners, and both were very short, only 50 seconds or so, then you trundle around a connecting road to the start to have another go - there was perhaps 15 minutes of practise, then you got one timed+scored lap at the end, then swap stages.

Prior to going out there was a briefing, which properly rattled through a lot of info covering safety, flags, steering wheel technique, oversteer, understeer and handbrake turns - the latter of which we were told were making up 25% of the score so even if your natural inclination was to use other techniques for the time, you were encouraged to do at least one handbrake turn per lap - usually on a hairpin bend which tightens on you, which both stages had.

The instructor I had was great - good guidance on speed, lines, braking points, and especially handbrake turns since it turned out he preferred a different technique to the one we were told to use in the briefing.

In terms of the driving.. there wasn't a lot of grip out there! I was very impressed by the tyres capability to cut through slush and mud on the hard tarmac areas and you could feel the grip through the wheel quite well, but unsurprisingly on the gravel/non-tarmac areas it was much less grippy and there was no real feel to judge grip, you just had to learn what an appropriate speed was. There was a lot of understeer in general, but then application of power lead to oversteer very quickly too. At the end I still felt like I was only just beginning to learn the car which was a bit frustrating because when I did feel like I understood the car better it became much more natural. At the end of the whole thing the demonstrators took the wheel to show how it was done. Or not - one instructor span, and mine understeered very badly on most of the corners So perhaps the conditions really were quite bad - one attendee even crashed off one stage into a tree, which they said had never happened before :/

Did I learn anything? I like the Toyota GT86 (yes, butcher, jealous). I like rally tyres even more. Being able to go past the limit quite benignly even though your brain is saying 'whoa.. the car is wobbling and not going where you're pointing it' is very reassuring, perhaps too much so because I suspect the temptation to attack a patch snow and sort it out later might occur in other cars/tyres which aren't so easy to control a power slide with. Yes, I can now do handbrake turns too, but that's pointless - even on this rally setup it was barely any quicker, and only then if executed perfectly.

But above all.. I learned that I love rally. Much as I enjoyed the choice of lines on the wider stage, it was the precision needed for the tight, technical, stage that really hooked me. Was that because it was someone else's car I would have scraped if I make a mistake? Possibly, but dancing the 86 through a chicane, using power to help rotate the car for the next set of corners.. that was something I could have done all day long.

[Lowe]

I've seen these advertised quite a lot recently and thought they sound a hoot. The 86 platform is good fun on a normal road let alone with extra drift lube thrown in for good measure. Sounds like you had a great time - which circuit did you go to?

[Zak33]

Well I am very glad to see a convert. Only took 20 years of HEXUS forums

Those tarmac boys....going round and round and round....//yawn
Get into those forests get into the mountains and the muddy or gravelly stuff

Now lets be clear about FWD and RWD. In proper clubmans rallying, RWD is nearly always quicker. Very few FWD cars can touch a RWD, to the extent that 205's and other classic FWD cars have been converted to RWD beasts.
Although the Escort MK2 is now such and old car that most of you haven't even seen one, let alone walked past them in the street... it is still one of the ultimate Clubmans rally cars and they often come Top 5 against far "superior" 4x4 monsters.
And that, dear chap is down to the driver, and the thousands of hours setting up the car....and building them right

The lovely irony of the GT86 you drove was that, long ago, Toyota made a Corolla..and although most were FWD shopping cars, they did make a RWD car, called a GT with a limited slip diff and it was a supreme rally car









RWD is a state of mind.... you either are... or you aren't and it takes a looooog time to swap.

Ask Lowe

[Zak33]

and yes... I hanker after a Corolla GT ... but I still have the 106 Rallye S1 1.3 ...so ... 1st world problems

[kalniel]

I've seen these advertised quite a lot recently and thought they sound a hoot. The 86 platform is good fun on a normal road let alone with extra drift lube thrown in for good measure. Sounds like you had a great time - which circuit did you go to?

Brands Hatch. Nice to watch a couple of nutters out in Ginettas, Radials and Formula 3 cars as well on the circuit proper.

Well I am very glad to see a convert. Only took 20 years of HEXUS forums

Those tarmac boys....going round and round and round....//yawn
Get into those forests get into the mountains and the muddy or gravelly stuff

Now lets be clear about FWD and RWD. In proper clubmans rallying, RWD is nearly always quicker. Very few FWD cars can touch a RWD, to the extent that 205's and other classic FWD cars have been converted to RWD beasts.
Although the Escort MK2 is now such and old car that most of you haven't even seen one, let alone walked past them in the street... it is still one of the ultimate Clubmans rally cars and they often come Top 5 against far "superior" 4x4 monsters.
And that, dear chap is down to the driver, and the thousands of hours setting up the car....and building them right

:chapaeu

The FWD advantage was present for the instructors too - so perhaps the small pug was also better suited to the tightness of the track.. or they just hadn't got the skill/experience you talk of maybe.

The lovely irony of the GT86 you drove was that, long ago, Toyota made a Corolla..and although most were FWD shopping cars, they did make a RWD car, called a GT with a limited slip diff and it was a supreme rally car.

RWD is a state of mind.... you either are... or you aren't and it takes a looooog time to swap.

Ask Lowe

Nice I was getting there...

[ik9000]

I've done that at Brands Hatch too. Definitely fun. Just not enough of it. We had a multi-stage day and got a bit of everything, but not enough of anything.

[Zak33]

guys..if you have the taste.. go do a proper long (prefably gravel or forest) day. It matters not if you end up in a Micra or a Pug, a quick car or a slow one.... go learn for a full day. Save your money up... for a full day do you feel complete afterwards. That feeling of "I'm just getting the hang of it and now it's all over" is not good for your soul!

[DanceswithUnix]

Sounds fun, was that a half day or what sort of session?

Wanted to do one of these last year, but ironically ended up spending too much on the replica Stratos so couldn't afford it. Maybe this year... (edit: Yeah I know, first world problem )

The courses around here seemed to be RWD Subaru based.

[kalniel]

It was a specific session - called RallyMaster I think, which has the two stages, ~20 mins on each - allow up to 1.5hrs for the whole thing but it was more like an hour including the briefing, instructor demo and debrief. I think you can get the voucher on sale quite often so it's less than the advertised price.

[Saracen999]

I've done a few "experience" days over the years, from a BMW M day, to supercars, and they've all been great fun. I think I enjoyed the Mini more than Ferrari, to be honest.

I've always regarded myself as a decent driver. Not great, but decent. Then seeing what a real pro could do with a huge tank like a long-wheelbase BMW 750i, left me with a new understanding of "good driver" ..... and it left my initial fellow passenger being let out after lap one (which was a warm-up, learn-the-track lap) and literally, puking at the trackside. I have a suspicion about them needing clean undies too.

But I've never done a rally day. I have a suspicion that might be at least three-clean-undies day. Sounds like grest fun.

[Dareos]

what kind of cost is in these? need to see if theres any up here?

[Butcher]

I like the Toyota GT86 (yes, butcher, jealous). I like rally tyres even more. Being able to go past the limit quite benignly even though your brain is saying 'whoa.. the car is wobbling and not going where you're pointing it' is very reassuring, perhaps too much so because I suspect the temptation to attack a patch snow and sort it out later might occur in other cars/tyres which aren't so easy to control a power slide with. Yes, I can now do handbrake turns too, but that's pointless - even on this rally setup it was barely any quicker, and only then if executed perfectly.

The GT86 is quite benign in general. In the snow last week I ended up driving it sideways at about a 20 degree angle along the road at one point, because that's what it wanted to do. It felt quite controlled even with that little traction. Also, despite the slippy slidey conditions I didn't hit or even get close to any other cars. It's a car that doesn't bite (much) if you trw.

I've done a few "experience" days over the years, from a BMW M day, to supercars, and they've all been great fun. I think I enjoyed the Mini more than Ferrari, to be honest.

I've always regarded myself as a decent driver. Not great, but decent. Then seeing what a real pro could do with a huge tank like a long-wheelbase BMW 750i, left me with a new understanding of "good driver" ..... and it left my initial fellow passenger being let out after lap one (which was a warm-up, learn-the-track lap) and literally, puking at the trackside. I have a suspicion about them needing clean undies too.

But I've never done a rally day. I have a suspicion that might be at least three-clean-undies day. Sounds like grest fun.

It's interesting the difference between a quick road driver and a quick track driver. There's a very different skillset and mindset for both. Track speeds and G-force are way higher though, because you don't have to worry about the other clowns so much.

[Saracen999]

....

It's interesting the difference between a quick road driver and a quick track driver. There's a very different skillset and mindset for both. Track speeds and G-force are way higher though, because you don't have to worry about the other clowns so much.

Oh, absolutely. Apart from anything else, taking a track 'racing' line round a public road bend risks you ending up as a splatted smear on the front of the 40-ton artic coming the other way.