Another Tesla Autopilot crash

[Saracen999]

This time, a Tesla in the US, on autopilot 'while the driver sorted out his dog, which was in the vehicle's rear' .... crashed into a stationary police car with blue lights flashing, which was parked behind a broken-down vehicle while they awaited a tow-truck. According to (BBC) reports even then, the Tesla carried on travelling, shoving the police car into the broken down vehicle.

Oops.

Tesla commented that they recommend not taking your hands off the wheel even in autopilot. The police commented that regardless of the vehicle's "capabilities" while driving you attention must be fully on driving. And then charged the driver with reckless driving and reckless endangerment.

All of which suggests that even if the car is "smart", the meat component of the 'vehicle' can still be a complete idiot.

At least nobody was hurt ..... this time.

[spacein_vader]

Despite their best efforts the driver escaped Darwin's clutches.

Whoever called what is essentially glorified lane assistance "autopilot" needs their head testing too. It gives the credulous unrealistic expectations of its abilities.

[kalniel]

How many cars from other manufacturers of about the same size as Tesla have crashed in the same time period?

We know humans are idiots. Computers (running software designed by said humans) are too, but are they more or less idiotic?

[DanceswithUnix]

How many cars from other manufacturers of about the same size as Tesla have crashed in the same time period?

We know humans are idiots. Computers (running software designed by said humans) are too, but are they more or less idiotic?

My hope is that the computers can be taught to not do that again. As humans we will always have our moments.

But I do wonder if it would have made the news if any other car had stupidly ploughed into the back of a police car.

[Zak33]

I think the point here is that... the customer believes they are safe to fiddle about with their dog, with autopilot on.

I'm an old boy.. I remember this all before:

When the Fiat X1/9 was launched, which was mid engined, all the road tests claimed the grip was phenomenal... the weekend of it's launch, the countryside was littered with X1/9's, backwards into hedges, wrapped around trees and upside down in ditches. I am not exagerating.
When ABS was becoming more prevailant, people started driving closer to the car in front. Body shops were very busy with nearly new cars, with front end damage, with ABS.
When 4x4 performance cars came to the masses (not off roaders... im' talking Impreza/Cosworth/Delta etc) lots of them got totalled because they DID have more corner grip and that allowed the car to get to the NEXT corner faster than ever the 2wd versons could and THEN they came off the road... faster and harder
When rear parking sensors came to be affordable, the body shop I was dealing with ordered MORE rear bumpers WITH parking sensor holes pre drilled than non sensored bumpers, because the drivers reversed them into MORE object, not less.

I'll not go on.

The worry for Tesla autopilot for me is the "come get me" function. It will be safe.. it will be at less than walking speed. But the chance of it finding it's way through a typical UK trading estate car park, where everyone is parked like a bomd just detonated, with couriers dropping off all day long and people walking dogs, and people on bikes - is zero.

[AETAaAS]

But I do wonder if it would have made the news if any other car had stupidly ploughed into the back of a police car.

Well, its the flip side of Tesla wanting to be in the limelight of driving automation, alongside implementing and advertising a system called 'Autopilot'.

This one is weird especially since I would have thought this kind of accident would have been prevented by a collision mitigation system which is one of the more basic of the modern driver assists.

[kalniel]

I think the point here is that... the customer believes they are safe to fiddle about with their dog, with autopilot on.

I get that - I was wondering what the crash rate was like even given the above. I mean, the crash rate seems to be enormous when humans know they are in full control of a car, so it is any higher even when a computer is in control when it shouldn't be, or is it lower, despite that?

[Ttaskmaster]

Tesla commented that they recommend not taking your hands off the wheel even in autopilot. The police commented that regardless of the vehicle's "capabilities" while driving you attention must be fully on driving.

And there's the problem that our lord and saviour saint Elon, and his techy disciples, did not design around with their infernal machines... Boredom.
How can you pay attention when you're sat there with absolutely nothing to do? Car does everything - Steers, indicates, manages acceleration and braking. You literally sit there, hands holding a wheel you don't even turn, staring blankly as a passenger, completely unengaged with the world outside and in no way ready to leap into action if a hazard develops. I'd be asleep in minutes...

Either the car does drive itself, or it don't. Sort it out, Tesla!

[DanceswithUnix]

This one is weird especially since I would have thought this kind of accident would have been prevented by a collision mitigation system which is one of the more basic of the modern driver assists.

Indeed, and the model 3 seems better at this stuff than the model S as well, so I am surprised the radar didn't sense the problem to avoid a collision. I presume these things still obey the old rule of driving to visibility, where you should always be able to stop in the distance you can observe (so no doing 60mph around a blind bend for example).

I wonder if this will be another case of the driver *thought* they were had driver assist, but had tapped the brake pedal and disengaged it.

I'd be asleep in minutes...

You wouldn't be the first.

[[GSV]Trig]

And there's the problem that our lord and saviour saint Elon, and his techy disciples, did not design around with their infernal machines... Boredom.
How can you pay attention when you're sat there with absolutely nothing to do? Car does everything - Steers, indicates, manages acceleration and braking. You literally sit there, hands holding a wheel you don't even turn, staring blankly as a passenger, completely unengaged with the world outside and in no way ready to leap into action if a hazard develops. I'd be asleep in minutes...

Either the car does drive itself, or it don't. Sort it out, Tesla!

This, have said the same for years, the les the driver has to do the more chance they'll find something to do thats not driving..
How many cars do you see driving without lights on these days, because my other car does it for me, lets not get into the cars that have the "DLR" lights on that only put lights on the front, drive can see the road but is unaware that the back of the car isnt illuminated until they brake, but thats another thread..

Cars need to be all or nothing, none of this half way house crap.

[DanceswithUnix]

How many cars do you see driving without lights on these days,

Now be fair, people have *always* driven around with no lights on.

We have one car with automatic lights, and I do leave them on auto. I honestly don't find a problem going to one of the others where I have to turn the stalk to put the lights on.

Hill Holder was more of a worry for me. If you stop on a slope, then when you take your foot off the brakes the car doesn't roll off hence helping you hill start. I did think that would make me more likely to fudge up the clutch control in other cars, but after a year and a half it doesn't. Sometimes I need to stop worrying and finding problems that aren't there

[Ttaskmaster]

How many cars do you see driving without lights on these days, because my other car does it for me

Well, there are plenty of cars that I can't see at all, because their effin' blinding DRLs are on, full beam in the broad daylight of a summer mid-day... really pees me off when cars do that and doubly so when their light alignment is duff. Aside from anything else, it makes motorcycles harder to see (believe me, I do know to look for them) and generally messes with other drivers' perceptions.

I rarely use my own lights, except for when it actually gets dark or visibility drops, my measure for which is when the dash markings start to lose their clarity in the existing light... which is exactly how they've been designed, funnily enough.
If you need daytime running lights in order to see a big boxy car in broad daylight in the exact position you'd expect to see a car, then you don't belong on the road.

You wouldn't be the first.

See, I'd buy a Tesla or other electric car if it could properly self drive, and could be made to look (inside and out) and sound like the car in this clip, which I'd love to re-enact:

[Saracen999]

And there's the problem that our lord and saviour saint Elon, and his techy disciples, did not design around with their infernal machines... Boredom.
How can you pay attention when you're sat there with absolutely nothing to do? Car does everything - Steers, indicates, manages acceleration and braking. You literally sit there, hands holding a wheel you don't even turn, staring blankly as a passenger, completely unengaged with the world outside and in no way ready to leap into action if a hazard develops. I'd be asleep in minutes...

Either the car does drive itself, or it don't. Sort it out, Tesla!

Exactly. That's what I was getting at with quoting the Tesla response, and the police comments.

I actually see 'Autopilot' as the way of the future. It's coming (IMHO) and currently, in computer-processor terms, the technology is about 8088/8086 standard. Barely.

What worries me isn't so much the world of full autopilot, it's the (to nick a Brexit term) .... "the transition period". And frankly, at my age, full autopilot can't come soon enough ... while I still can drive manually. After that, getting in and telling the car "Waitrose please, wake me up when we get there .... with a coffee and jam doughnut" has a certain appeal.

How many cars from other manufacturers of about the same size as Tesla have crashed in the same time period?

Good point. But I also agree with AETAaAS about courting the media - it's great, until they turn on you.

But I do wonder if it would have made the news if any other car had stupidly ploughed into the back of a police car.

I doubt it.

Some considerable numbers of years ago, it happened to a friend of mine. He was parked up on a slip road, in a marked police SD1 Rover (not a small car) with flashing blue lights, when an idiot in a Renault Giordini (small, but quick car) piled in the back of him because the driver was too busy watching the incident on the motorway to notice the ruddy great blue-light police car. The impact wzs so great it tore the Rover's front seat bolts from their mountings, and flipped my friend's seat backwards, whereby he sustained a nasty neck whiplash injury that had him off work for several months.

Admittedly, "News" was different in those days compared to now but guess how much news coverage an almost identical situation, except to the "autopilot" bit, that got? Correct - none, zero, zip, nil, bupkiss, sweet-FA and beggar-all.