JCB - Is combustion still viable...

[DanceswithUnix]

I'm not sure why BMW are having such issues, others seem to be able to make hydrogen cars 'just work'.

I'm really not convinced they have tbh. Getting an engine to burn hydrogen seems really easy. Fuel cells are harder, but seem to be maturing well. Making hydrogen isn't that hard, I could be making small quantities here at home using electrolysis and solar power in minutes if I wanted. So if hydrogen could just work, I think it would be everywhere by now. It would certainly have killed off battery vehicles.

I think it's partly down to safely handling and storing hydrogen.

NASA's SLS rocket had that recent launch abort down to the difficulty of handling the hydrogen fuel. The space shuttle had similar problems. Rocket scientists struggle with the stuff, I just don't see how we can safely stick it in cars.

People were iffy enough about LPG in cars, and that stuff we stick in little cans and go hiking around the countryside with to run our camp stoves.

But ignoring the safety issues, did you see the size of the tank in that BMW? There can't be any space for luggage in that car, and even that huge tank gives it a rubbish range. Hydrogen is great per kilo, but the density is so low that it's awful per unit volume.

[jimbouk]

I'm not sure you can just order one, but Toyota do sell them: https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/mirai

Can exactly be actually dangerous if they're allowed to sell the to the public target than using them as flawed publicity material.

The problems certainly aren't all solved for full commercial roll out, like electric cars there's availability of refill/recharge stations. Electricity/hydrogen generation/production becoming greener. Battery tech/fuel cell tech becoming more affordable/sustainable.

I'm glad some companies are taking the alternatives to batteries seriously. Sometimes it's just houses for courses, but nothing seems fully mature so good to keep options open.

[AGTDenton]

Harry's been back again.

Something very interesting is that two natural sources of Hydrogen have been discovered.

[Percy1983]

The problem with hydrogen is its lack of efficiency, so in short the amount of energy needed to make the hydrogen could be put straight into a an ev which would then go 3-4x further.

With that hydrogen certain does show promise in HGVs and industrial machinery as evs don't make sense as they fall down a rabbit hole of needing more power so bigger batteries which then needs more power which then needs bigger batteries.

[[GSV]Trig]

They're dicking about with Hydrogen EV's on that ExtremeE thing I mess with at work, changing it to ExtremeH next year, although as I understand it, they're putting a small hydrogen fuel cell in the car, but its still a battery powered car, was it Toyota that were messing with hydrogen ICE cars, thats probably a bit more viable.

[Percy1983]

They're dicking about with Hydrogen EV's on that ExtremeE thing I mess with at work, changing it to ExtremeH next year, although as I understand it, they're putting a small hydrogen fuel cell in the car, but its still a battery powered car, was it Toyota that were messing with hydrogen ICE cars, thats probably a bit more viable.

That is the most efficient way to run a hydrogen vehicle, basically an ev with a small battery (running like a capacitor) and a hydrogen fuel cell feeding the battery. Of course making the hydrogen isn't as efficient as putting the electric straight in a battery but adding range can be done with more hydrogen storage which once you get into bigger vehicles it crosses the break even in weight to storage and makes more sense hence something like extreme e.