Wedding photography

[Elmo]

I think my family are getting quite fed up of me just now We're looking to book a wedding photographer, but everyone's saying "well how bout this one, they're cheap..." But as soon as i look at their website or brochures, they're actually quite rubbish as well! All the ones i've seen that are decent and that i'd trust to take photos at my wedding, are extortionate, but to be honest, when i know what i'm looking for in a wedding 'tog, i don't really want to scrimp if i don't have to! But then maybe my priorities are all squiffy

I also keep trying to justify paying £1k on a photographer, and i keep getting "why don't you just hand out disposable cameras?" - ARGH!

Someone please reassure me that i'm not going insane? Please?

Anyway, we're off to see a potential photographer in an hour to discuss what i'm looking for and possible prices, so wish me luck!

[Rhyth]

To another photographer, choosing another wedding photographer is maybe like looking for diamonds in a sea of zirconia...

I'm lucky enough to have a pro in the family (Film) who did ours as a gift but I had this scenario when choosing the band as I'm a musician too It all worked out in the end

[Saracen]

Handing out disposable cameras is a great idea .... if you just want crappy snaphots. It's also, actually, a very good idea as well as a decent "official" photographer.

So .... here's my guide to justify a decent pro.

Point 1).

It's your special day. Hopefully, one and only. Do you want good photos? Do you want to be able to look back over the years? Do you want to be able to show your kids .... and grandkids?

If so, choose carefully. As a general rule, you get what you pay for. There are exceptions, but it's a good general guide.

Point 2).

Photographers have a business to run, and obviously need to make a living from it. And when you do a wedding shoot, it not only requires the commitment of quite a lot of time on the day, and perhaps of more than one person, but it requires a lot of time afterwards that you, the customer, don't see. And all that time has to be paid for.

And there's a lot of expenses, too. Any sensible wedding photographer not only needs good camera gear, but a decent range of spares, too. The can't get to a wedding and find your camera's packed up. So you need at least one spare body. Most pros use good quality gear, and neither the cameras nor the lenses are cheap.

And, bear in mind, whatever the photographer earns, it's a business, and he'll have overheads to pay for, insurances etc, and then he has to pay tax, so a decent chunk of whatever you pay goes straight to the government anyway.

Point 3).

As I said, you get what you pay for, generally.

A photographer is offering a personal service. It isn't like a shop where he can sell more by taking on people to fill boxes and ship them. He only has so many hours in a day, and can only sell those hours once. So .... the market determines the rate. If he knows he only has a certain number of Saturdays (and bear in mind, weddings do often require weekend working, and photographers have families too), and he's got more work than he can cope with, he'll charge what the market will bear. If you won't pay it, someone else will.


Which brings me neatly back to the beginning .... do you want good quality work?



There are exceptions to the above. There are amateurs that do weddings for family and friends, and do it at cost, and can do a damn fine job. And there are pros that are hopeless.

There are also people that are starting out, want to build a portfolio, don't have an extensive client list or existing reputation, and may well be prepared to undercut the existing good pros. And some of those hungrier newcomers will be good, too. Very good, in fact. But not all.

And it isn't just photographic skills you need. You need someone that knows what's needed, has a good 'eye' for the shoot, but also has the people and diplomatic skills the be able to arrange and organise the formal element of the shoot AND take control of the "mob". You need someone strong enough to be able to control the situation, such as dealing politely but firmly with friends and relatives that hang around while he (or she) is doing their job, and get right in the way in the process.

You want someone with an eye for detail. It isn't just the formal shots that matter. For a really good shoot, it's seeing and capturing the informal gems. He has to keep an eye out for flirting bridesmaids, classic facial expressions on the bride and grooms parents faces, for those captivatingly charming moments of innocence from the antics of kids, and so on. As well as trying to avoid photographic evidence of "the same dress", especially if the Bride's mother is one of them () .... and so on.

And, of course, he needs to be aware that the groom, and especially the bride (congrats, if that's you, by the way, Elmo) are historically notorious for missing out on or failing to remember the vast bulk of what goes on. It's entirely likely that the ONLY time you'll see much of what happens on your wedding day is when you see the pics.There's too much else going on on the day for much of it to be anything but a blur to you. So .... those pics are likely to be very precious to you .... if a good job has been done. Is it worth cheaping out on it?

So, the art of picking a wedding photographer is to find someone with the technical skills to get REALLY good images, with the eye to see the gems in the events, with the organisational skills to get what he needs out of the mêlée that is the average wedding, the diplomatic skills of an international statesman and the patience of Job himself.

Oh, and one more thing. The photographer doesn't get to have a dry run at it, and you don't get to be able to recreate the scene if things are screwed up. It's a one-shot deal. Do you want someone good, competent and experienced ..... or do you want to take a chance on someone that isn't as good, with the risk that you'll end up with crap photos, or no photos at all (and yes, that has happened).


No wonder it isn't cheap.

[Rhyth]

Some of this might help.

From AL Jacobs Book:

Simple Questions How many years in the business and what are his/her qualifications, certifications,
organizations associated with, seminars attended and what other formal training has he
had?
Is this a full time occupation, just a weekend part time job and what do you do the rest of
the week?
Does he or she have a studio or registered pace of business with a tax number and the
proper business certificate.
"Have you handled many events of my type and size before"?
What are the reasons you think we should hire you?
Will you personally be the photographer for our wedding? Will the person you are
talking to be the actual shooter. Some pro's have associates during peak seasons to cover
duplicate dates. You want to meet that person and discuss those same topics with the
actual photographer. If the party uses his wife as the assistant, generally it's nice to have a
woman around the chaos and she can go where the photographer can't.
Do you carry business insurance? Another excellent question to ask. It tells you a lot
about the individual. Many larger hotels with catering and Wedding facilities have a list
of photographers with proper insurance and liability coverage. They require it in some
instances. It protects them if something goes wrong.
Find out whom you are dealing with through the better business bureau. Will you be in
for a surprise in some cases.
What's your style, Traditional or Photojournalist. I'm looking for a "photojournalistic
photographer"! What is your definition of "photojournalism"? After looking at his or her
portfolio did you feel comfortable with what you saw. Here's the problem. No one ever
shows you the bad stuff. Only the carefully culled great stuff or what they consider great
stuff. Is there a boring repetition in their work?

Another clue about PJ shooters if they show you "their craft". (Words right out of
Hollywood) and they have to explain the pictures to you, you have a problem.
"Wannabe Syndrome. Ever wonder why it's called "Arts and Crafts". Anyone can make
crafts, few can make art.


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How comfortable are you with this person? You will have intimate and stressful
moments with this person.
How does this person fit in with the picture? Simple, does he have a tux for a formal
wedding?
Can you afford this person? Nothing more to be said here except what are his terms.
Read what my terms are, they are fair to both parties. What if any Value added options?
Is he willing to put everything in writing? When will you see your proofs, how long? Is
he providing the albums, how much for this, extras, incidentals, time constraints, travel
fees and the list goes on. Does he have packages, or shoot by the picture, picture
purchased, etc. When will you see the proofs. After it is in writing ask for a copy and
you'll study it overnight. Get someone who understands legalese to decipher it. Hidden
Costs ? Are there extra fees for staying late, traveling, tolls, parking, and so forth.
Their Lab, just who are they? Pro Wedding labs have a higher bar as to quality and
professional work. They may also use different papers and textures than they find down
at the local drug store, Sam's Wal-mart and K-Mart. Their machinery is calibrated to
Wedding work where there are more whites and blacks than regular labs who deal with
blues and greens of water and grass. The cheapest cop-out is the computer CD-Rom.
If you are paying for the photographer shooting CD-Rom disc alone, what exactly will
you get, L0-res, HI-res, NEF, RAW, DNG, or any other proprietary formats like PSD
from Adobe. If you do not understand what this is all about, get someone on your side
who does. Also who did or does the correction or Digital Workflow the newer equipment
sometimes requires.
Some photographers take too long to deliver. This could be GOOD or BAD. There is no
reason for this other than poor time management or they sent it to a cheaper out -of -state
lab -OR- one of the better busier commercial labs that specialize in Weddings only and
knows skin tones and cropping. That's why you ASK who does their work.
References: Get names and addresses from the photographer and check them out
personally. Sisters, brothers and friends don't count. Ask for a few business references
that he deals with too. Tells you whether he pays his bills on time. (Bet you never heard
of that angle). See if his name is on the public records somewhere. Surprising what this
turns up.
What format does he shoot in. You have three choices.
o Medium format camera systems that produce negatives three times larger than a
35mm. Names like Hasselblad, Bronica and Mamiya are medium format
Professional Level Cameras. Larger negatives produce larger prints with more
resolution and clarity. Medium format negatives provide better tonal quality and
allow retouching.


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o 35MM is a smaller format or size and is used by the majority of shooters who
prefer volume and fast work. Used primarily by value conscious shooters and
value conscious Brides who do not anticipate large prints over 11x14. The
cameras are smaller; the flashes are smaller, but OK for most weddings.

o Digital is the latest and greatest and can easily duplicate the 35MM format and
some higher end cameras have even entered the medium format realm. Read more
in my introduction to digital in another section.
Unfortunately Digital also means you might be getting a CD ROM for the do it
yourself prints. Unless this is a specifically budget wise decision, you are heading
in the wrong direction.

o If you go digital you must insist on high resolution files, 300 DPI or the CD-ROM
will be only good for viewing on a monitor and CD-ROM as an option is OK but
should not be the primary package.

You would think this would drive the costs of weddings down. In a sense it should. Digital saves
you the cost of film and processing –BUT- the gear costs four times as much. It has also
increased the competition in this arena with the promise of taking good pictures is as easy as pie.
So now you have Tom, Dick and Harry now posing as "professionals" and popping low cost CD-
ROMS and goodby.

Digital in the hands of an artistic practiced wedding professional is art. Digital in the hands of a
hack is still “JUNK”. “The camera doth not maketh the pictures”.

The single most ridiculous question I ever hear in a photo-related question forum starts off with;
“What camera did you use, what was the shutter speed and F stop, or what lens was that. It
really is a clue to someone being a newbie in the club. It’s simple, all those variables don’t mean
a thing as soon as the light, the poses, the backgrounds, the players, the location and a hundred
other things change. Put the same gear in that persons hands and you can have a disaster. Just
common sense.

Back to the prints. The point here is that quality prints from DIGITAL are printed at .300 Dots
per Inch. CD-ROMs for viewing are represented at .72 dots per inch. It is literally four times less
resolution. You want to see the work at the printing resolution and that's where the quality is
based, not the cartoon show some of these guys deliver, because when you go to print them a .72
DPI photo is ghastly when enlarged.

The real important questions about format are. What are your criteria for choosing what you
would shoot with at my Wedding? What would you photograph at my wedding? How do you
know how many pictures to take? What makes your photographs better or different than
anybody else's? Have you photographed in this hall, Church, Mosque, Synagogue before.


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Does he have backup equipment? Let them tell you thy never have problems and don't
need backups and you walk out. Simple. He's not what you are looking for.
Food for the crew. Who eats or doesn't, when and where do they sit etc. This is numero
uno on the after the Wedding Report card. Get this settled way in advance. The Wedding
is no place to negotiate. This seems to be a bigger problem than you think especially
with large weddings and caterers who count by the head.
Which leads to the following, how many people will cover the event? Is your crew there
to work or are they trainees getting practice? I attended one wedding where four trainees
were just a pain in the ass, all sat down to a fine meal, and the photographer tried to sell
the Wedding couple his associates work and bump the bill. The Bride with a little
Chutzpah told him the judge would straighten the whole thing out. She won. It's good to
be the niece of an attorney.

[Elmo]

Cheers Saracen Just the ammunition i was going to need, however, on dragging the groom to be along to see the photographer today, I think he's now a bit more understanding about just how much work goes in to it. So much so that he saw how impressed *I* was at the folio, and said "i'll be back in a mo, just need to go get my cheque book"

this is the company we've hired:

Suzanne Hodgson Photography

[Bobster]

hope your day goes well

which package did you choose?

[Elmo]

we ended up going for the joy collection. A few of my mates' husbands are into photography, do i'll probably just ask them to take a few shots of the speeches.

[Bobster]

well speaches usually come before the cutting of the cake

she's left herself open there as well.. you could have the cutting of the cake at the end of the night

[Elmo]

aye, i asked about that, cos the venue will let you have the speaches before or after the meal, so i asked if we had had the speaches before the meal, would we be able to get photos of them in the joy collection? and she said no basically. Because apparently you'd use 20 or so shots just on the speaches, which is a fair whack out of 100, so they'd charge for 120... or something like that. anyway, we decided that our mates could probably get some decent shots for us then anyway If i could manage it, i'd totally do the photography for my own wedding.... but i think i might be a bit too busy

[r_j_k_p]

im no pro or anything, but i'd surely take a few snaps for you
plus im in glasgow!

[Elmo]

Cheers, I'm afraid i've already paid the deposit though.

We did have plans to have the ceremony in Glasgow Uni chapel (i'm a graduate), but it turned out to be MEGA expensive, so we're sticking to good old paisley.

[r_j_k_p]

i wasnt expecting to get paid or anything.
would do it for free, just want experience at some events, and to take some pics would have of course sent you all the pics after the ceremony.

hope you have a great day

[Bobster]

20 usable shots on speaches! thats alot!

[shiato storm]

I never found speeches shots that inspiring tbh, some ok but on the whole the best are the times outside the church and as all the guests casually mingle (usually outside) before sitting down to eat...they tend to be more animated that way too rather than static in place at a table.

[Barakka]

It's at times like this i'm glad we got married abroad - photos came to about £200 all in .

But looks like you've picked a decent photographer there and it's sooo good having the CD copy of all the pics to be able to print what you want, when you want.

Hope you have a great day.

[Bobster]

I never found speeches shots that inspiring tbh

depends on the wedding tbh, the speach from the goom on Friday ended up with him singing a song to his bride! that was pretty amazing