Has anyone had any experience with using Alibaba?

[KeyboardDemon]

My wife has given me the go ahead to buy a new DSLR camera, and I know exactly what I want so I have been sourcing the best price for a Canon EOS 5D (Mk ii) with 105mm lens kit.

I've looked at the Alibaba website and found a company based in Japan that has a great price on the camera kit. But before I shell out some serious cash looking for a saving I wanted to find out if people know whether or not I can trust a site like Alibaba. I googled and found that a number of people have had some bad experiences, but it doesn't take much to find people with bad experiences on any etailer site including many of the sites I use regularly with no complaints or issues.

So my question is can I trust sites like Alibaba?

And if I'm ordering from Japan am I likely to encounter other costs such as when getting the kit through customs?

Lastly, would the warranties offered with the camera be affected by buying through this channel?

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Unless the company lies on the customs declaration you will be hit with a sizeable level of customs duty and VAT too.

Moreover,if anything goes wrong with the camera you will need to send it back to Japan. In most cases you will be liable for the postage. If you bought it from a company which deals with grey imports in the UK,you might get some warranty. However,Canon UK probably won't look kindly on grey imports so don't expect much help from them.

[KeyboardDemon]

Thanks Cat. I had a feeling that there would be issues, but wanted to check for peace of mind before spending a sizeable chunk of cash.

[Matthammer]

Yup, what Cat said.
I had a cursory glance over it a while back and thought to a point it looked like the equivalent of buying a russian mobile from del boy. You can't be entirely sure where its coming from, there is no guarantee, an underlying expectation of poor quality combined with huge distance for returns etc.
I do know people who have used it despite advice against and it has not gone well. A former colleague ended up with a pretty basic camera with a sticker of the Canon logo covering an area where some random unknown brand had been detached. The return process was then understandably prolonged and ultimately non-existent. The requirements for 'companies' and their products to be listed there are beyond lax.

Ultimately you get what you pay for and not only that but when buying from abroad anything that looks cheap on the surface is often susceptible to charges anyway. Most often its companies here in the UK that will get you the best all-round deal, though sometimes this requires a little digging.

[mikerr]

If you don't mind imports, you could try http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/ or http://digitalrev.com

Both well respected importers providing their own warranties - you'll find them mentioned positively on many photography fora.

[peterb]

The specs for a device made for a non-UK market may be different (for example, NTSC output rather than PAL) although that is less likely to be an issue with a camera.

Canon do (I'm told) honour warranties on grey imports, but by sending them back to the country of origin, with the resultant delays and potential costs.

[Alibaba UK]

Hi KeyBoardDemon

We just came across your post and would like to thank you for your query about using Alibaba.com

As an international business-to-business ecommerce platform, Alibaba.com is really aimed at small and medium businesses wanting to source large quantities of goods from global suppliers.

However, if you are looking to import in smaller quantities, it is worth having a look at our sister site, Aliexpress.com. The site specialises in small order quantities for those businesses that need samples or single items for their shops.

Kind regards and happy trading

The Alibaba UK Team

[Saracen]

Current rates (as per HMRC) are :-

Digital cameras = 0% to 4.9%
Camera lenses = 6.7%.

As I understand it, DSLRs are at the 0% end of that, but if you want worst-case figures, use 4.9%.

And VAT is 20% on both.

So .... break down the cost between the two. Add 4.9% (worst case) to the camera, and 6.7% to the lens. Then add ALL other costs of importing, such as packaging, insurance, etc.

To that, add 20% for VAT. Then, as like as not, add a "handling" charge by the importer for customs clearance, which is likely to be £10-£20 (but don't take my word for it).

So ... and these prices are examples, not accurate prices -

Camera = £1500. Add 4.9% (and remember, I think it's 0%, so this is worst-case). That gives £1573.50.

Lens (assuming 24-105mm IS L) = £700. Add 6.7% so that's £746.90.

Therefore camera plus lens = £1573.50 = £746.90 = £2320.40.

If packaging, insurance, etc comes to £50, then add that.

Now you have £2370.40.

And you pay VAT on that, so add 20%.

£2370.40 = VAT of £474.08 = £2844.48.

And to that, add a handling charge (call it £15).

Total cost to you, delivered, is £2859.48 if you get the 4.9% on import duty. If the 0% rate applies, it'll be about £88 cheaper, based on those example prices.

And if those example shipping and "handling" costs are correct, the cost to you will go up by about 26% or 30%, depending on whether the camera gets hit for import duty or whether (as I think) the 0% rate applies to the camera .... or possibly you will find that a "bundle" gets hit for some combined rate, rather than each item attracting a separate rate.


The conclusion of all this?

1) The only way to be sure of the cost is probably going to be getting expert advice, perhaps from HMRC about the exact rates that will apply.

2) Broadly, allow for 25-30% increase on the raw cost of camera plus lens .... unless you're lucky enough to have it slip through unchecked.

Then, in light of issues over warranty, returning to the far east if you have a problem, lack of UK consumer protection cover like DSR and SoGA, etc, and ask yourself .... is it worth it?

For me, that's a resounding "no". Your mileage may vary.

[Jay]

I have been told if you go to their head office and say "Open Sesame" at the front door it opens and you take what ever you want.

[KeyboardDemon]

If you don't mind imports, you could try http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/ or http://digitalrev.com

I have been looking at hdewcameras.co.uk but with the bundle packs digitalrev.com are starting to look better. We still have a bit of time before our funds are released, but it looks like we know where we will buy from, these stores both state that they offer full UK warranties.

The specs for a device made for a non-UK market may be different (for example, NTSC output rather than PAL) although that is less likely to be an issue with a camera.

Canon do (I'm told) honour warranties on grey imports, but by sending them back to the country of origin, with the resultant delays and potential costs.

If I was buying for myself I wouldn't mind grey imports, but my wife needs it more than I do as she has been given an opportunity to work as freelance in house photographer taking pictures of women's only social and religious functions for a banqueting hall, we can't afford to lose gigs because the camera is in transit to Japan, Hong Kong or anywhere else.

Hi KeyBoardDemon

We just came across your post and would like to thank you for your query about using Alibaba.com

As an international business-to-business ecommerce platform, Alibaba.com is really aimed at small and medium businesses wanting to source large quantities of goods from global suppliers.

However, if you are looking to import in smaller quantities, it is worth having a look at our sister site, Aliexpress.com. The site specialises in small order quantities for those businesses that need samples or single items for their shops.

Kind regards and happy trading

The Alibaba UK Team

Thanks for the response, I think Alibaba and Express have a great future ahead of them, but for the present moment it does appear from comments on here and those found in review sites that many of the companies trading through Alibaba have been less than honest or reliable, the general consensus seems to be that Alibaba will not be safe until something is done to provide rock solid guarantees to their customers buying through this market place. I have found many instances of people claiming to have been sent counterfeit goods, or in some cases nothing at all and then not being able to get any assistance through Alibaba's customer support to chase the supplier or get refunds on the money they spent.

In the early days of eBay there were similar issues and concerns, given time I hope Alibaba is able to address those concerns and become a service that is as trusted as eBay, until that time, I might respectfully just stick to UK based traders in order to avoid costly issues, but I will keep an eye on Alibaba and Aliexpress so that I will be able to take advantage of some great deals once the issues have been addressed and the site is getting more positive reviews.

The conclusion of all this?

1) The only way to be sure of the cost is probably going to be getting expert advice, perhaps from HMRC about the exact rates that will apply.

2) Broadly, allow for 25-30% increase on the raw cost of camera plus lens .... unless you're lucky enough to have it slip through unchecked.

Then, in light of issues over warranty, returning to the far east if you have a problem, lack of UK consumer protection cover like DSR and SoGA, etc, and ask yourself .... is it worth it?

For me, that's a resounding "no". Your mileage may vary.

Thanks for a really detailed and well explained answer, I agree with you, it's not worth it.

I have been told if you go to their head office and say "Open Sesame" at the front door it opens and you take what ever you want.

lol. Let's just hope that when I do it I don't find forty thieves.

[BobF64]

Unless the company lies on the customs declaration you will be hit with a sizeable level of customs duty and VAT too.

And should the company do that, and HMRC decide its false, you, as the recipient, get the slapping not the sender.