Domestic CCTV advice

[FatalSaviour]

Good morning all, since moving to a new house last year, my car (whilst parked) has had the misfortune of being hit by another vehicle (with no details left of course). Now, an effort to park as close as possible to the pavement has resulted in a bike/pram/handbag/something equally devious from scratching the side.

As a result, I'm getting a little fed up, and although the option to install a driveway is hot on my list of to-dos, I'm considering the possibility of putting some cameras in as well for interim/additional piece of mind.

This is an area that I don't know very much about - I've seem some models such as this Swann kit that would seem to fulfil the brief. However, I'm wondering whether there is a more elegant solution that I could use.

My main issue with that kit is that if I were to get a total of 3 cameras, they would all need to have cables run through the house to the central DVR. My house has a fairly decent Powerline network active at the moment, and I am wondering whether it may be more tidy to go for cameras that rely on IP connectivity (perhaps with PoE injectors), so that there is only one cable going to each camera. This would (I expect) also mean that I could use the Powerlines to aggregate the feeds in a central place, without additional cables everywhere?

In terms of DVR capability, I have a Microserver running Windows 10 that is always on - is there suitable software that would allow me to use this as a target (or would a dedicated standalone device be recommended).

The budget I had in mind was around the £200-£300 mark, but given my lack of knowledge on what's available, I have no idea whether this is realistic/optimistic?

Any advice would be very gratefully received!!

[peterb]

You might want to read this

http://www.problemneighbours.co.uk/c...d-the-law.html

If the camera is only covering your own property, you should be OK.

If you are looking for useful images, you will need reasonably high definition, and at night you will need some form of infra red flood lighting. Evidentially acceptable images is another matter, ideally you need a verifiable time code embedded in the images, however, even if the images aren't evidentially acceptable, they can still be useful to identify perpetrators, and the presence of CCTV and the warning signs, may also act as a deterrent.

[FatalSaviour]

Thanks peter - as you say, I don't think this should be a problem, as any cameras would be covering only my own property.

I'm now after some product advice as to which cameras etc. might be best in this situation.

[peterb]

Hmm, Google is your friend

http://www.thinkcctvsystems.com/stor...nal-installers For example.

How many cameras are you thinking about, are you looking to record images, if so, for how long (some recorders overwrite after a specific period of time.). Is it going to be a dedicated system or are you going to monitor through your TV or computer? Do you want to view remotely?

You could also consider a NEST camera

https://store.nest.com/uk/product/security/camera/

[FatalSaviour]

Hmm, Google is your friend

http://www.thinkcctvsystems.com/stor...nal-installers For example.

How many cameras are you thinking about, are you looking to record images, if so, for how long (some recorders overwrite after a specific period of time.). Is it going to be a dedicated system or are you going to monitor through your TV or computer? Do you want to view remotely?

You could also consider a NEST camera

https://store.nest.com/uk/product/security/camera/

Thanks Peter, apologies if my initial post wasn't as clear as it could have been. I have already started to look into cameras/systems available, but as mentioned, am feeling that the vast majority of these with BNC connectors may be less ideal, given my preference to use Homeplugs to link the cameras.

With regards to the monitoring/recording system, this is an area where I would benefit from some advice. As started in the OP, I have a microserver that I am happy for the cameras to record to (if viable), but I have no idea whether this is a viable, or indeed a recommended option.

I have considered the Nest system (and indeed have the Nest thermostat already). However, I feel that these are essentially useless without the monthly subscription plans (and these plans seem to get expensive fairly quickly).

[Macman]

http://www.cctvforum.com/ - Might find what your needing from here.

[peterb]

Thanks Peter, apologies if my initial post wasn't as clear as it could have been. I have already started to look into cameras/systems available, but as mentioned, am feeling that the vast majority of these with BNC connectors may be less ideal, given my preference to use Homeplugs to link the cameras.

With regards to the monitoring/recording system, this is an area where I would benefit from some advice. As started in the OP, I have a microserver that I am happy for the cameras to record to (if viable), but I have no idea whether this is a viable, or indeed a recommended option.

I have considered the Nest system (and indeed have the Nest thermostat already). However, I feel that these are essentially useless without the monthly subscription plans (and these plans seem to get expensive fairly quickly).

Ok, so you are looking at IP cameras. Video does use quite a bit of bandwidth, proportional to the resolution, although the compression algorithms help.

You have slightly less control with IP as all the encoding is done at the camera end. There used to be a range of servers that took a composite video signal fro several cameras, and then presented that as an IP output.

I'll see if I can dig out any info.

[GoNz0]

Jumping in for a subscription as I am looking for IP cameras, I have a spare router and thecus n5200 to use & plan to shove them in the loft out the way for noise reasons.

[Saracen]

...

This is an area that I don't know very much about - I've seem some models such as this Swann kit that would seem to fulfil the brief. However, I'm wondering whether there is a more elegant solution that I could use.

...

A friend, or perhaps acquaintance is a better word, is a CCTV installer, and he warned me off that type of kit in pretty blunt terms. His comment, paraphrasing, is that that is consumer-grade stuff and you (or me) can do MUCH better for similar money. He was talking about £450 for a 3-camera system, and about £80-90 per camera for extra cameras, up to 8. That's with "commercial-grade outdoor night-capable cameras" with a video quality of evidence-grade and time-stamped recordings.

That price is supply and fully install, everything included, from DVR to cables and connectors, and the first year's maintenance checks. As he visits annually anywhere to do the alarm maintenance and checks, and has done for many years, he's well known to us, trustworthy and used by about half a dozen neighbours too. He's reliable and competent, and not one of these easy-come easy-go outfits.

Next time I talk to him, I'll get system details. But it might be a while. We have him booked to do another ihstallation, but he's up to his ears in a really big commercial installation at the moment, with (and I quote) "enough cameras to surveil a medium size town".

[peterb]

This was the video server - it has increased in price a lot since I last looked.

http://www.icode.co.uk/icatcher/cctv...ver-p-444.html

There are some Linux applications for building cctv video recording systems, with time stamps etc.

It depends how 'serious' you want the system to be, as Saracen stated above. You may find a prebuilt professionally installed system has more credibility in court and may be less hassle in the long run.

On the other hand,mid it is a deterrent effect you want, a couple of dummy cameras and some 'CCTV in operation' signs might work just as well. Those dummy cameras must have operational IR lights though to maintain credibility at night.

[FatalSaviour]

Thanks for the responses guys, very much appreciated. I don't want to speak on his behalf, but I think Gonzo and I are probably in a similar boat in this respect - IP cameras are certainly the way that I was expecting I might go (given the option to use Homeplugs).

I'll continue to research and of course, would be grateful for any further advice!

[Guy]

I've been looking into IP cameras and (when I get some free time!) think I'll be going down the Hikvision route. Already have a Synology DS415+ running Surveillance Station, as well as a POE switch.
Their model names are more than a little confusing though. The results seem excellent and they seem to hit the sweet spot of price - performance.

Not that concerned about being IP only as the network is pretty robust and even if anything happened to the NAS, everything's going to AWS.

[FatalSaviour]

I've been looking into IP cameras and (when I get some free time!) think I'll be going down the Hikvision route. Already have a Synology DS415+ running Surveillance Station, as well as a POE switch.
Their model names are more than a little confusing though. The results seem excellent and they seem to hit the sweet spot of price - performance.

Not that concerned about being IP only as the network is pretty robust and even if anything happened to the NAS, everything's going to AWS.

From the fairly limited knowledge that I had already gleaned, I'd agree that the Hikvision cameras seem to be pretty attractive. How would the backup to AWS work?
The reason I ask is that I also have a cloud backup provider (LiveDrive - cheap as chips but has been fine for my current purposes), but would expect that in this case it may be advisable to have smaller individual files that can be backed up?
I'm considering the event where you may have, say, a 500MB file that has recorded the person breaking into your home, but that couldn't be uploaded before he's run off with your NAS?

(I may have got completely the wrong end of the stick of course!)

[Guy]

From the fairly limited knowledge that I had already gleaned, I'd agree that the Hikvision cameras seem to be pretty attractive. How would the backup to AWS work?
The reason I ask is that I also have a cloud backup provider (LiveDrive - cheap as chips but has been fine for my current purposes), but would expect that in this case it may be advisable to have smaller individual files that can be backed up?
I'm considering the event where you may have, say, a 500MB file that has recorded the person breaking into your home, but that couldn't be uploaded before he's run off with your NAS?

(I may have got completely the wrong end of the stick of course!)

I use AWS as one backup source for the whole NAS, would be the same for any surveillance stuff. It's set for real time uploading. But yes there is a risk that if the NAS went then you could loose anything not uploaded.
However... that's no different to if you're using any sort of CCTV system with a DVR. Additionally you'd have to have someone who knew exactly what to look for, as you couldn't easily follow the cables back to a single point.
If you're that paranoid several of the cameras have the ability to record to SD cards as well, so unless the cameras and NAS unit was taken they'd still be on film.

All depends how much you're willing to spend and how much redundancy you're after.

[Lee H]

Want something simple?

I would recommended the Netgear Arlo Camera kit.

I got one of these before they were released as part of the netgear beta testing I was selected for it and have a 2 camera kit with base station.

Installations a doddle as its wireless.
Range - seems to be better than the homehub2AC in regards to cameras pairing up at the bottom of the garden a good ~20m away
Ease of use - very simple. Its app based for ios/android so access is very simple.
Push notifications are good (a bit too good when getting 40 motion activation's due to the dog!)
HD video. Good quality HD video with night vision. If you wish to see what the video quality is like, the following URL is a good start : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQVyxzKh9OM
Ability to share videos on a URL to friends, family, others without downloading and uploading to a source or storage area.
Strong Magnet : held on with no issues during all the storms we've had in the last few weeks. I was dubious, but they have proved me wrong.
Cameras can be camouflaged if needed by means of the covers that are on sale. I find the white blended in with the awings of our roof so when insitu its hard to see the cameras are there.

The downside to using these are as follows ;
They rely on your ISP being on as they are wireless. If your ISP drops or your connection dies you can't monitor or see/use the cameras
They use CR123A batteries (4 per camera) : Depending on usage, activation's, recording lengths etc I get roughly a month of power before they need changing so have 16 batteries from ebay to rotate to ensure they're always powered and ready to use.
basic package only gives 1 GB of space and 7 days recordings. If you wish to have more space or recordings over a longer period, you have to sign up for a package but if your good on logging in and deleting/moving the recordings then I find that the basic package is okay for this.

[FatalSaviour]

Want something simple?

I would recommended the Netgear Arlo Camera kit.

I got one of these before they were released as part of the netgear beta testing I was selected for it and have a 2 camera kit with base station.

Installations a doddle as its wireless.
Range - seems to be better than the homehub2AC in regards to cameras pairing up at the bottom of the garden a good ~20m away
Ease of use - very simple. Its app based for ios/android so access is very simple.
Push notifications are good (a bit too good when getting 40 motion activation's due to the dog!)
HD video. Good quality HD video with night vision. If you wish to see what the video quality is like, the following URL is a good start : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQVyxzKh9OM
Ability to share videos on a URL to friends, family, others without downloading and uploading to a source or storage area.
Strong Magnet : held on with no issues during all the storms we've had in the last few weeks. I was dubious, but they have proved me wrong.
Cameras can be camouflaged if needed by means of the covers that are on sale. I find the white blended in with the awings of our roof so when insitu its hard to see the cameras are there.

The downside to using these are as follows ;
They rely on your ISP being on as they are wireless. If your ISP drops or your connection dies you can't monitor or see/use the cameras
They use CR123A batteries (4 per camera) : Depending on usage, activation's, recording lengths etc I get roughly a month of power before they need changing so have 16 batteries from ebay to rotate to ensure they're always powered and ready to use.
basic package only gives 1 GB of space and 7 days recordings. If you wish to have more space or recordings over a longer period, you have to sign up for a package but if your good on logging in and deleting/moving the recordings then I find that the basic package is okay for this.

Thanks a lot for this Lee - certainly a lot simpler than I was anticipating. I think the battery life will be the one that I'll have to seriously consider - with regards to the 16 batteries you've bought - are these rechargeable or disposable variants that could be seen as a (small) ongoing cost?