Bowling for Columbine

[Flibb]

I go shooting and if asked the same questuion would reply
"The Telephone"
Police station isnt too far away from me. Think it is worth noting that some of the people could be miles away from the nearest neighbour, let alone the nearest town, supose I wouldnt feal safe then either. Same thing happens in South Africa, farmers there are well armed, burglars tend to shoot the victim rather than risk being identified or shot themselves.
Flibb

[quimico]

So you are always armed and because all the media tries as much as they can to freak you out, if somebody look at you in way you don't like you just shoot. Natural reaction when you are armed and scare to death. Isn't that wrong???

[Flibb]

Yep your hypothesis is correct, although I doubt that many people are shot for looking at somebody funny. And all the US gun owners I have talked to (mostly from Texas) didnt appear to be scared to death, probably because they carried pistols (concealed weapons permit) and also because of the low crime rate in their state. Just grabbed this from the net. Basically about the law allowing people to carry guns in public places.

George W. Bush has made Texas "safer." Gov. Bush vowed that Texas` Right to Carry law would make the state a "safer place," and statistics prove he was right. Texas` homicide rate has declined to its lowest point since the 1950s and has decreased a startling 60% from the high under his predecessor. Murder rates in Texas fell by 25% between 1995 and 1997, much faster than the 16% decline in states without "shall-issue" laws. Overall, Texas` total violent crime rate has dropped 20% under Gov. Bush and is lower than at any time since 1974.


As i said the people I know who carry arnt at all scarred and dont go around blasting people in bars for looking at them funny.
Flibb

[quimico]

Sure, but in all that statistic you comment a drop of a 20% it's ok but in numbers are we talking that from 1000 murders in 1995 in 1997 there were only 800???? It's not to be picky. But the real numbers can be really scary even with such a percentage drop. And apart from that what about the rest. In the movie they showed more than 11000 murders in one year. Safe? for who?

[Flibb]

No homicide dropped by 60%, violent crime by 20%. Also the people least likely to be involved in crime are those that have permits, another copy and paste from net

In an unpublished report, engineering statistician William Sturdevant found that concealed carry licensees had arrest rates far lower than the general population for every category of crime. For instance:

** Licensees were 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public--127 per 100,000 population versus 730 per 100,000.

** Licensees were 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for nonviolent offenses than the general public--386 per 100,000 population versus 5,212 per 100,000.

** Further, the general public is 1.4 times more likely to be arrested for murder than licensees, and no licensee had been arrested for negligent manslaughter.

Also murder rates in 2000 per 100,000 people.

50.14 South Africa
21.40 Russia (1999)
10.00 Lithuania
_9.94 Estonia
_6.22 Latvia
_5.64 U.S.A.
_2.94 Spain
_2.86 Finland
_2.84 Northern Ireland
_2.72 Czech Republic
_2.65 Slovakia
_2.58 New Zealand
_2.50 Romania
_2.31 Turkey (1999)
_2.23 Poland
_2.11 Scotland
_2.04 Hungary
_1.97 Sweden
_1.81 Australia
_1.79 France
_1.76 Canada
_1.61 England & Wales
_1.54 Belgium
_1.50 Greece
_1.48 Ireland (Eire)
_1.42 Netherlands
_1.42 Italy
_1.41 Slovenia
_1.24 Portugal
_1.17 Germany
_1.10 Japan
_1.09 Norway
_1.09 Denmark
_1.06 Malta
_1.01 Austria
_0.96 Switzerland
_0.60 Cyprus
_0.23 Luxembourg


The thing to note here is that Switzerland has very high gun ownership and a very low murder rate, Finland lots of guns quiet a bit of murder, Ireland virtually no guns allowed and lots of murder, Scotland is higher than England and i havent a clue why. Lots of people use the number of gun murders to justify a clamp down on gun ownership but total murders should be used, as if a gun is not available then something else is often used. I think Switzerland has the right idea, 80% of men are given guns by the government but in the process are taught how to use them and the resposibility that goes with it. They also have a history of parents teaching children hunting, again this aids a responsible attitude to firearms.

Cheers
Flibb

[R3k]

Scotland is higher than England and i havent a clue why

According to 'Lonely Planet - Scotland' Scots drink more whisky which leads to violent drunkeness

Thanks for those stats, that is far more useful than the figures given in the film. Although I take it these are murders, not murders commited with firearms?

[Flibb]

Thats it I've sussed it, its all down to alcohol.
Russians drink vodka = Spirit
Americans drink bourbon (think thats a type of whisky)= Spirit
Irish Guiness but they also drink loads of whisky =Spirit
Scotts more whisky +Spirit
English and Welsh both drink beer, hence lower crime rate

None of the stats actually mean anything, I read one report where they used statistics to prove that high gun ownership leads to high rate of murders. NRA got hold of the same numbers and as a joke statisticaly proved that murder rate is down to the number of cars you own...

I think the problem in the US is that guns are seen as a right and not a responsibility. In UK you also have the right to own firearms, but you are vetted by the Police and must demonstrate an understanding of safety and show that you are responsible.
Flibb

[wol]

Theres no real vetting going on. Its like giving everyone a car without testing them and letting them loose on the roads!

Wol

[Wraith2288]

what scares me about some of the people over here is, the republican party wanted to have a national ID card after 9/11 (ie: you must register as a citizen and carry an ID card), but they find the idea of registering a gun to be against the principle of the constitution.

It is also worthwhile to note the wording of the amendment about guns in the US constitution... I dont have the text right here, but its something like "A well regulated militia being necessary for the maintainence of a nation, all citizens have the right to bear arms". It seems to me that very few gun owners in the US are members of their state militia... so... am I misunderstanding this? I mean, I'm just remembering that because my American Government teacher mentioned it a few years ago in school...

[bertie]

Michael Moore is just a hardcore Democrat trying to force his views on other people. I respect the work he did in bowling for columbine and the message WAS good, but he just constantly attacks those not of the same political views as his
Moore also criticises away throughout the film, but does he offer any ideas or solutions to the problem? Nope.

All very nice to watch but it doesn't really get us anywhere does it

[Flibb]

The rules on gun ownership differs from state to state and can even change from city to city, I think some places have totally banned pistols. But a lot of the country type peple do actually count themselves as some kind of militia, the bloke with M16 in the film was one and his mates on the range were. A mate at work has just come back from beegting the US army at shooting in a international competition, the top American had a M16 at home and also was given unlimited ammo, think he was national guard.
Flibb

[Maffu]

What I did think was good about the film, and wasn't a biased point, politically ['least, I don't think it was..] was WHY Americans feel it is ness. for them to protect their homes with guns. Paranoia.

I find it very interesting that the Canadians, with a near same amount of gun ownership kept their doors open, weren't so worried about "what ifs." Yet, the average American is just waiting for someone to come into their home to shoot them, defend what's theres. Guns, ownership of; imo, it's all second to the state of mind that the vast majority of America are in.