Upgrade from a phenom x6 (thuban) to a Kaby lake 7700k

[speedstream]

I have a cooleraster v10 that i'd like to keep. Anyone know if this should be keeping up with the cooling?
I've undervolted and underclocked it at this point and I'm still getting thermal throttling...I find that...weird to say the least. my phenom used to sit around 13 - 16c idle. This one....ugh...40c and that's undervolted.
Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

[kalniel]

You must like your rooms fridge cold if you get 13C on idle..!

The V10 is a pretty old cooler - I'm slightly surprised it even has the right mounting brackets, but most likely explanation is something's gone wrong with the HSF installation on your new CPU. Perhaps too much paste, perhaps a fan isn't working correctly. Your new CPU should be much easier to cool than the phenom.

[scaryjim]

You must like your rooms fridge cold if you get 13C on idle..! ...

Didn't most K10-derived CPUs have a temperature sensor bug that under-reported the CPU temperature?

As kalniel says, you shouldn't be having more problems cooling the new CPU than the old one, which would point to the cooler not being properly fitted. I'd remove, remount, check all the connections.

[DanceswithUnix]

13 degrees sounds like a BIOS or software fault to me. Sensors need to be calibrated, sometimes a program in Windows doesn't know the calibration.

What does the hardware monitoring in the BIOS say? I presume it is too late to get that reading for the Phenom machine

[EndlessWaves]

Didn't most K10-derived CPUs have a temperature sensor bug that under-reported the CPU temperature?

All CPU temperature sensors wander at values further away from the range they're designed to measure, they just wandered more than most. I wouldn't worry about any sort of idle values, it's the load ones that are most accurate and that matter the most.

[speedstream]

lol, great. removing this thing is an engineering feat. I suppose I could have screwed up the install somehow, I'm generally pretty confident in my abilities. I'll give it another go.
My room is....between 68f and 72f every day.

Yeah I didn't think the heat would work out to be that much more. 91w(kaby) vs 131w (thuban) and the v10 capable of dissipating 200w...the numbers didn't add up.

[speedstream]

13 degrees sounds like a BIOS or software fault to me. Sensors need to be calibrated, sometimes a program in Windows doesn't know the calibration.

What does the hardware monitoring in the BIOS say? I presume it is too late to get that reading for the Phenom machine

the board or cpu was shutting off at 50c and crashing to death. the board, cpu and fancy tracer ram are now sitting next to my desk...cold and afraid of their fate.

[scaryjim]

the board or cpu was shutting off at 50c ...

Then something's seriously wrong somewhere - that's way too low a temperature for thermal shutdown. Hope you can work out what's wrong!

[speedstream]

Then something's seriously wrong somewhere - that's way too low a temperature for thermal shutdown. Hope you can work out what's wrong!

that was the thuban....sorry i wasn't clear. Thats why the guts got replaced with the kaby.

[scaryjim]

that was the thuban....sorry i wasn't clear. Thats why the guts got replaced with the kaby.

Ah, right; sorry, my bad

tbh depending on your case/general ventilation/room temps (20C - 22C), 40C wouldn't be that surprising as an idle temp. What is your case? Just did a quick google but I can't find an Antec 980....?

[speedstream]

I thought that was the nomenclature. this is almost it, but it's not a full size case. it's mid, so it doesn't have 3 fans in the front like this one. Just two
https://www.amazon.com/Antec-Twelve-.../dp/B004INH0FS

[EndlessWaves]

lol, great. removing this thing is an engineering feat. I suppose I could have screwed up the install somehow, I'm generally pretty confident in my abilities. I'll give it another go.
My room is....between 68f and 72f every day.

Anything without a refrigeration unit cannot achieve anything lower than air temperature, so your Phenom would have been idling at 30-50°C in reality.

Temperature sensors on chips are there to allow the CPU to throttle and then shut down when it gets too hot. The value they produce is distance away from maximum temperature rather than an absolute temperature - that's an invention by the hardware monitoring programs.

Yeah I didn't think the heat would work out to be that much more. 91w(kaby) vs 131w (thuban) and the v10 capable of dissipating 200w...the numbers didn't add up.

Well heat and temperature isn't the same thing, and if there's a higher load temperature then one reason will be because the chip is a third of the size so despite emitting only two thirds as much heat there's more heat per square millimeter and consequently a higher temperature.

Also, the mainstream chip design these days is focused on portables with limiting cooling systems. CPUs are designed to make the most of the thermal headroom by running at the highest possible clockspeed within the safe temperature limits of the CPU. The majority of Kaby Lake processors Intel makes will be running at 90°C+ under load.

The desktop variants don't have sufficient turbo boost ability to do that under a large cooler like yours so I'd expect it to only run at about 70°C or so under load.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I know its like trying to catch a horse after its bolted,I am just interested why the OP didn't wait another month or two for Ryzen to be released??

Edit!!

NVM,read the rest of the thread.

[speedstream]

Anything without a refrigeration unit cannot achieve anything lower than air temperature, so your Phenom would have been idling at 30-50°C in reality.

Temperature sensors on chips are there to allow the CPU to throttle and then shut down when it gets too hot. The value they produce is distance away from maximum temperature rather than an absolute temperature - that's an invention by the hardware monitoring programs.



Well heat and temperature isn't the same thing, and if there's a higher load temperature then one reason will be because the chip is a third of the size so despite emitting only two thirds as much heat there's more heat per square millimeter and consequently a higher temperature.

Also, the mainstream chip design these days is focused on portables with limiting cooling systems. CPUs are designed to make the most of the thermal headroom by running at the highest possible clockspeed within the safe temperature limits of the CPU. The majority of Kaby Lake processors Intel makes will be running at 90°C+ under load.

The desktop variants don't have sufficient turbo boost ability to do that under a large cooler like yours so I'd expect it to only run at about 70°C or so under load.

90+ as a norm... great......undervolted and underclocked i'm running 91-92 on the Kaby while trying to play watchdogs2. I guess I'm going to have to make the dip into water cooling. I think I have a spare radiator from a nissan laying around I could fit onto the side of my chassis.....lol

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

90+ as a norm... great......undervolted and underclocked i'm running 91-92 on the Kaby while trying to play watchdogs2. I guess I'm going to have to make the dip into water cooling. I think I have a spare radiator from a nissan laying around I could fit onto the side of my chassis.....lol

From IB onwards they used TIM under the IHS and when the IHS is removed it seems to reduce temperatures massively. The socket 2011 CPUs use solder AFAIK so don't have the same problem. Having said that my 22NM IB Core i7 does not run as hot with a reasonable cooler. It really makes me wonder how leaky 14NM is at higher voltages and clockspeeds,ie,its being overvolted past its optimal on desktop,or whether it is a simple case of the cores getting much smaller but with not as big a TDP reduction as you would expect from 22NM,as it means the heat density must be much higher.