CPU Architecture vs CPU version

[Salted,8]

I know that better architecture is better in general, but are there really any benefits when it comes to gaming? I can understand rendering etc, but not gaming surely.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Gaming performance on a hardware level is dependent on a few metrics:
1.)General core IPC
2.)Clockspeed
3.)Uncore - caches and memory controllers,ie,if the CPU has a rubbish memory controller it can cause the core to be bandwidth starved. Larger caches can be utilised to partially get over this.
4.)Core and uncore latencies,so this could be cache latencies,memory latencies,core to memory controller latencies,etc

Then you also have the issue of optimisations. Game engines might be optimised for certain core designs,so it takes time for games developers to support hardware which deviates from the norm.

So an example is when Intel had the HEDT Skylake X CPUs. These had the same cores as consumer socket Skylake cores,but added a different cache layout and move from a ring bus to a mesh bus. So the biggest changes were the uncore - this lead to increased latencies inside the CPU and this lead to some games having noticeably lower performance. So despite the same IPC and single threaded performance,the uncore had a noticeable impact on gaming performance!

With Ryzen,you have the problem of latencies and clockspeeds in games. Intel with higher clockspeeds can surpass AMD in single threaded performance for the highest end models,but on lower end models the differences in single threaded performance are actually minimal AFAIK. Also Ryzen does have increased latencies,which is basically,latency between the CCX complexes in each chiplet,and latency between the CCX and the memory controller. You can see the effect of using only one CCX by comparing the Ryzen 3 3300X against the Ryzen 3 3100. Apparent "IPC" in latency dependent applications in gaming is improved.

There is also the fact certain games with older engines have been developed on Intel ring bus topology CPUs,so won't get updates. So this puts even Zen2 at a disadvantage in gaming,as it has to brute force games. However,looking forward with the consoles having Zen2 cores,it will mean,newer games will be programmed to take into consideration these differences AMD has over Intel.

[Salted,8]

Wow, that is a massively informative post, a lot to digest, I’m not even sure I know enough to formulate a decent reply, thank you, seems I have to go look a few more things up... thanks again

[watercooled]

I'm gonna take a shot at the post from another angle, regarding terminology used. You ask about architecture vs CPU version, but it's important to define what they actually are, or your understanding of them. I'll avoid going into detail on everything but I'll throw in some Google-able terms if you want to look deeper.

A CPUs architecture (strictly speaking we're talking about microarchitecture, to distinguish it from Instruction Set Architecture e.g. x86/ARM/MIPS/etc), is more or less the design of the CPU itself, and usually refers to the cores as opposed to the uncore as mentioned by CAT above. Examples of microarchitecture include Sandy Bridge, Haswell, Skylake from Intel, and Bulldozer, Piledriver, Zen and Zen2 from AMD. The design is what fundamentally dictates the performance of the processor in everything from rendering to gaming and everything else besides - without changes to microarchitecture, you can't just keep increasing performance through other methods such as clock speed or core count because you eventually run into walls.

As CAT has already listed, there are several factors which ultimately dictate a CPUs performance, and they are not simple, universal numbers as core designs are quite individual and may perform very differently to one another in different applications.

As such, it's not really possible to give a simple yes/no answer to your question IMO as microarchitecture is one of the fundamental factors when considering performance at all, especially gaming. It basically is the CPU. If you don't have a better microarchitecture, you have fundamentally the same CPU. Sure, you might be able to push up clocks at the expense of power consumption, or slap on a few more cores, but that only helps you so much and eventually you run into those walls I mentioned earlier.

[Salted,8]

wow, thank you

I’ll explain the initial reason for the question, I was looking at the cost of an i7 first gen vs an i5 2nd gen, both were around £20. I’ll be putting together a cheap build so I was curious about which was the better option..

I don’t play games myself except to test for an hour or so, so although I’m aware that cpu does come into play with some games and I can measure temperature and fps, I don’t have the ability to see if a game is higher or lower quality without the numbers, which measurements obviously would change depending on the cpu.

[ik9000]

i7 first gen? You mean S1156? Where did you find a mobo to support that? They're like hen's teeth! Or do you mean nehalem? BTW nehalem didn't get any spectre/meltdown microcode fixes if that matters to you.

[Salted,8]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gaming-PC...-/124088258181

with maybe this

https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail?...ghz%29-lga1156 (is that ‘first gen’? - still learning)

Trying to put together something (requested as) really cheap for an enquiry made by the man who owns the gym I ‘go’ to, he contacted me after seeing my last build on instagram but had a few requirements, small form factor and could handle duel monitors and the graphics on his commercial analytics software , well I have one of these hanging around from a pc i’ve just disassembled https://www.asus.com/uk/Graphics-Cards/R7240-2GD5-L/ along with some ram from the same pc, so I figured that lot should work ok for him

edit: actually looking at it, i’m not sure the cpu would fit as I believe the mobo is LGA 1155 based on the sellers description of the pc i’ve picked up, so maybe a quad core i5 would be better since it won’t cost £70 for 2nd gen

[cptwhite_uk]

You can pick up i5 2nd/3rd gen quad cores from CEX (with 2 year warranty) for as little as £12 + delivery (typically £3.00 delivery)

However my pick would be the i5-3550 which can be had for £22

https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail?...ghz%29-lga1155

[Salted,8]

You can pick up i5 2nd/3rd gen quad cores from CEX (with 2 year warranty) for as little as £12 + delivery (typically £3.00 delivery)

However my pick would be the i5-3550 which can be had for £22

https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail?...ghz%29-lga1155

I’ve had a look and for obvious reasons they seem to be a little lacking in choice at the moment, even the one you posted is out of stock so the only alternative is local or ebay

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gaming-PC...-/124088258181

with maybe this

https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail?...ghz%29-lga1156 (is that ‘first gen’? - still learning)

Trying to put together something (requested as) really cheap for an enquiry made by the man who owns the gym I ‘go’ to, he contacted me after seeing my last build on instagram but had a few requirements, small form factor and could handle duel monitors and the graphics on his commercial analytics software , well I have one of these hanging around from a pc i’ve just disassembled https://www.asus.com/uk/Graphics-Cards/R7240-2GD5-L/ along with some ram from the same pc, so I figured that lot should work ok for him

edit: actually looking at it, i’m not sure the cpu would fit as I believe the mobo is LGA 1155 based on the sellers description of the pc i’ve picked up, so maybe a quad core i5 would be better since it won’t cost £70 for 2nd gen

Is that barebones already purchased??

The Core i5 3470 is £28 on CEX and is in stock. However,I would suggest you look at a Xeon E3 or Xeon E3 V2 CPU,as these fit in socket 1155 motherboards and I used them myself:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...c&LH_PrefLoc=1

The CPUs lack an IGP unless the model number ends in a 5. The V2 models are IB and the ones without the V model naming are SB based.

This Xeon E3 1225 V2 is almost the same as a Core i5 3450:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeo...ezXXJ&LH_BIN=1

This Xeon E3 1240 V2 is close to a Core i7 3770 non-K but has no IGP:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeo...e03MC&LH_BIN=1
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SR0P5-REF...51122&LH_BIN=1

Edit!!

First generation SB based Xeon E3 CPUs are supported by the HP Z210:
https://www.bargainhardware.co.uk/co..._datasheet.pdf

I would check if later IB based Xeon E3 V2 CPUs are supported.

Second Edit!!

It seems like there is no BIOS update for IB based CPUs:
https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Busine...t/td-p/6770424

So you need to avoid the Xeon E3 V2 and Core i5/Core i7 3000 series CPUs.

Third Edit!!

There is this SB based Xeon E3 1240:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeo...0AAOSwK9heTqdT

Also there is this Core i7 2600:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Processor...gAAOSws4Re0-lu

[cptwhite_uk]

You can pick up i5 2nd/3rd gen quad cores from CEX (with 2 year warranty) for as little as £12 + delivery (typically £3.00 delivery)

However my pick would be the i5-3550 which can be had for £22

https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail?...ghz%29-lga1155

Sorry about that, I had clicked "In Stock Only" when I filtered for a suitable suggestion, guess it's not working!

[Teece]

Just remember that Xeons can't be OC'd quite so easily as their iX counterparts.