Ryzen 7000 and Win 10?

[Saracen999]

Has anyone seen an official statement on Ryzen 7000 OS compatibility?

Lots of reviewers say it'll need Win 11 and, to be honest, that's what I expect too. But unlike Intel 12th Gen ('cos of the scheduler and p-core/e-core thing) I haven't seen anything categoric on either W10 simply won't work, or will but with significant performance limits.

I'm still trying to decide whether to get a new system, and if so, what. The scheduler issue (and other things) puts me right off Intel 12th-G, and I don't feel inclined to reset my thinking for 13th-G, so .... AMD.

But 5000 or 7000? The latter appears to have quite a performance edge but :-

- I probably don't really need it. A 5900X ain't slow.
- But I kinda want 7000
- To do so (optimally) probably requires not just DDR5 but the PC48000 variant, and
- DDR5 PC48000 is going to be quite a bit more expensive than DDR4 for a 5900X.
- And so are motherboards.

So going 7000 will up the cost a fair bit. And, as it's bleeding edge, there's the risk of early adopter issues, needing BIOS fixes, etc.

But I fancy one.

I'm kinda in balance right now between 5900X and saying "aw, hell, 7000 it is". What might well tip it one way or t'other is whether Win 10 works (and properly) with 7000 Series. As some here may remember, I'm reluctant enough to use Win 10 and 11 has a number of things I'm even less inclined to give in to.

But I can't find any categoric, as in from AMD, answers as to whether it will or won't work at all, and/or decently. Have I missed it, or have they just not yet said?

TIA.

[DanceswithUnix]

I figured the motherboard companies are your best source here.

Look at the bottom of this page: https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/ro...me-model/spec/

Asus say that board needs 64 bit Windows 11 or 10

Note that was the first board I looked at, verifying is an exercise for the reader

[Saracen999]

.... verifying is an exercise for the reader

Fair enough.

I wouldn't go for Crosshair but there's also a Rog Strix X670 Extreme. This might be a naming issue but, not sure I'm up for an "Extreme" either. They normally seem to be targetted at heavy clockers and that ain't me. On the 5000 series, I'm more looking at X570-E, because it's not too much more expensive than B550, and does have the features I'm after including 2.5G.

But Asus don't seem to yet list a non-Extreme X670. Yet.

That inclusion of 64-bit doesn't surprise me, and I would be 64-bit anyway. But even on the Crosshair extreme, it doesn't quite get to the assurance I'd need before jumping in.

It seems to me there are sevwral possibilities :_

1) 7000 will require Win 11.
2) 7000 will work best with W11 but will function, albeit limited, with W10
3) 7000 works fine with both.

That statement seems to preclude 1), but if it turns out that 2) is true, my issue is limited how? And they don't say.

It could be that certain features won't work with W10 but unless I need/want those specific features, it won't matter. It could be that W10 works but doesn't take advantage of something (like the scheduler on Intel 12-G) that means yeah, it'll run, but you don't get all the performance advantages of 7000, and it runs the same (or even worse) than an equivalent 5000 and X570 combo. And that would be a problem.

My guess is I'll end up waiting to see if reviewers test such CPU/Mobo combinations on W10, and compare performance to the same hardware on W11. If anyone does. And hope it's not too late to get X570/5900X if I don't like the results.

Decisions, decisions.

[Rob_B]

I thought the Intel issue was the scheduler knowing about efficiency cores, with AMD going down the "everything is a performance core" route what is the potential issue with Win10 ?

[Saracen999]

The Intel issue is the scheduler, and I dunno with AMD, Rob, but I've seen several "reviewers" confidently predicting 'almost certainly Win 11 only' (*). I've no idea why .... other than maybe a stitchup with MS to get the reluctant to move.


(*) To be clear, I don't mean Linux won't run. These reviewers seem to referring to Windows users, an in if they want to run on 7000, it'll need W11.

[AGTDenton]

Windows 10 is supported until 2025 - it would be a little odd I think for Microsoft to tell manufacturers to not allow Win 10 on new hardware whilst at the same time maintaining it as old hardware depletes.

The next version of 10 22H2 is released next week.

What could happen is Microsoft says on Performance Boards/CPU's that Windows 10 cannot be supported.
Or they only allow OEM CPU's i.e. for prebuilt business machines to be Win 10 compatible.
More likely they could introduce features like DX13 for Win11 to tempt people over.

I definitely can't see an outright ban of Windows 10 on Ryzen 7000, and nor can I really see them turning features off.


I would say by Ryzen 9000 we will see a definite no no to Win 10.

[Saracen999]

I won't say I'm much bothered, at least right now, about what does or doesn't support Ryzen 9000, mainly because the reason I'm going as far as I'm thinking on this PC is that my intention is it's the last PC I plan on buying, and going fairly high up the spec options extends the longevity of it. By that, I don't mean preserving upgrade options but that, given the likely performance, it'll do everything I need for as long as I'm I'm likey to need it to do what I want it for.

As for what MS will do to try to nudge people to upgrade, nothing much would surprise me any more. But it's no more than that cynical opinion of them.

[DanceswithUnix]

But Asus don't seem to yet list a non-Extreme X670. Yet.

Oh yes, that's quite interesting isn't it. I've a bit more time so I'll have another poke...

It sounds like X670E and X670 are the same silicon, but with the E boards they are certified to work with PCIe 5. Perhaps ASUS feel the cost difference just isn't that great.

There is a TUF Gaming X670E board in there, which is the level I usually get and they really aren't high end. That seems to support Windows 10 and 11 too.

From a quick look at: https://www.asus.com/microsite/mothe...AM5-X670-B650/

The high end boards have 3 or 4 SSD slots that are PCIe 5, but ones like the TUF Gaming have one that is PCIe5 (so they are allowed to call it an X670E as it has gpu and storage at PCIe5) and a bunch of others at slower PCIe4 or 3 speeds presumably as they get further from the CPU or just use cheaper or no redriver chips.

They all have at least 2.5GbE networking which is nice to see. Some have a second 10GbE port as well.

Gigabyte only list three boards so far, but one of those is plain X670 as it only takes PCIe4 video cards: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard...X-rev-10/sp#sp

You can also tell it's budget because they slapped a Realtek rather than Intel 2.5GbE network chip on there. Anyway, the Gigabyte spec sheet says Windows 10 and 11 both supported.

Looking again at the Gigabyte AORUS ELITE AX web pages, the support area actually has drivers you can download most of which are common to Windows 10 and 11. They are also on their third BIOS download so these boards must exist and be getting a good shakedown already.

That looks to me like you are in luck. I'm struggling to think of what wouldn't be supported in Windows 10.

The scheduler should see a Ryzen 7000 as pretty much the same as a 5000 in terms of NUMA layout and cache proximity, if you have PCIe5 etc drivers for the bits on the CPU then the rest is just hardware that could be on a plug in card or an X470 board. I think you're good to go.

[ik9000]

the only downside to the new boards could be if they only support DDr5 and you're forced into those crazy ram prices.

[DanceswithUnix]

the only downside to the new boards could be if they only support DDr5 and you're forced into those crazy ram prices.

They only support DDR5.

To be fair, whilst I would be stunned if the 7000 series memory controllers can't handle DDR4 if only for things like engineering prototyping and early bringup, these motherboards need to handle 8000 series and beyond where AMD won't want the baggage.

[Saracen999]

Hmmm. On the DDR4 v DDR5 support, I'm inclined to prefer making that choice myself, and buying into a tech that only supports that one. I get that if a user already has DDR4, re-using it cuts the cost, at least for now. But the only DDR4 have is in SoDIMM form and in my laptop. My current PC, IIRC, is still DDR2. No, not a mistype.

So, I'm either buying DDR4 or DDR5 and that seems to me to be a case of whether I want to save money, or go for the higher performance of DDR5. All other factors being equal, the price difference (around double) isn't a deterrent because, in the whole project, it's not that much (say, for 32GB, £120 v £260 .... ish).

On the other hand, other factors aren't equal, and it seems to me that a critical part of Ryzen 7000 is probably coming from DDR5 speeds, so curtailing that, when I'd have to buy the DDR4 anyway, is pointless. So either I go R5000/DDR4, or R7000/DDR5.

Besides, I'm not wholly convinced that a mobo supporting both is in the best interests of either, and is pointless unless someone wants to re-use existing DDR4.

I know that (obviously) going R7000 is going to cost more (probably) for the CPU, very likely more for the mobo and certainly, more for the RAM. But in my case, I'll cheerfully do that, providing the performance difference justifies it. Independent testing awaited, on that point, but the current 'noises-off' are good.

As for Extreme boards, um, PCI4 is probably enough for me. In all likelihood, I'll use just one M.2 slot for a boot/system/scratch drive, and anything important (excet maybe a few games) will be on the NAS. Two M.2 sots is certainly enough and one probably is. I don't see me needing PCIe5 GPU any time soon which, if my plan holds, means never. And with one, or at a stretch, two M.2 SSDs, I don't need that aspect of Extreme given that the ones I've seen before tend to be Extreme prices too. I don't mind paying when I can see what I get for it, but based on previous eExtreme boards, what they offer isn't needed by me, I think it's a stage too far.