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Thread: Russia restarts cold war patrols

  1. #17
    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    ^ nice artists impression of the PAK-FA. Looks like the F35 and F22 which it is suposedly designed to take on. These 5th generation fighters are awfully expensive to develop and take around 15 years to come to fruition. Iirc this programme was started about 2001. Atleast the Ruskies can split the cost with the Indians and more units will keep the cost down.
    "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.

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    WEEEEEEEEEEEEE! MadduckUK's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    ty, just thought it was a pretty plane is all
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  3. #19
    Now with added sobriety Rave's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    Quote Originally Posted by iranu View Post
    Looks awfully similar to this. Did they pull another konkordski?
    What, a Konkordski as in flying their version two months before the competition?

    No, the TU-160, although developed as a response to the B1 program, is a lot bigger and a lot faster than a B1-B.

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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    M.O.D. picture


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    Seething Cauldron of Hatred TheAnimus's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    what annoys me amazingly, is the media coverage not even 3months ago about Trident renewal.

    This is costing us less over 5 years, than the NHS it system bungle cost us in 1 year.

    Bargin!

    Remeber us british invented so much of the scary bomb. Silo's been my personal favourate!
    throw new ArgumentException (String, String, Exception)

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    Studmuffin Flibb's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    RAF must be pleased as punch to see the Bears in the air again, makes the Typhoon look like a good idea. Hadnt realised the range that the Bear has, nearly twice that of the Nimrod or AWACS. As to photos, heres a good one
    http://swisshornet.bleublog.ch/files...1145738369.jpg

  7. #23
    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    Typhoon is turning out to be a very capable aircraft even in the air to ground role, which they will be performing in Afghanistan next year. Can't keep flying those Jags (now gone which was stupid cos they had a recent upgrade and are really good CAS platform) and Tornados forever. Airframes have a fatigue life and there's nothing you can do about that. As aircraft age they become very expensive to maintain a bit like an old banger that struggles to pass it's MOT. I used to work as a repair engineer for Roll Royce primarily on the RB199 (with a bit of pegasus and adour thrown in) and I can tell you that at the time out of 230 ish aircraft the UK might have been able to put up about 60-70 due to spares issues, mainly caused by inadequate government funding - good job the cold war was over.

    Replacing it with F16/F18 gains might have been cheap but they are the same generation of fighters so gained nothing at the time. F22 - I doubt the yanks would let us in on it and we could only afford about 3 1/2 of them . Wait for F35? Well F35 was not even a program when Eurofighter was being drawn up in the eighties.
    "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.

  8. #24
    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
    What, a Konkordski as in flying their version two months before the competition?

    No, the TU-160, although developed as a response to the B1 program, is a lot bigger and a lot faster than a B1-B.
    Shame that Konkordski crashed twice way before the concorde accident. The Tu-160 is a superb aircraft. A Times defence journalist was supposed to have some evidence of Russian espionage with regards to the B1, which was cancelled then reinstated so many times it's not true.

    It does perform a slightly different role to the B1 variants. Russia has claimed that it has successfully penetrated US airspace.
    "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.

  9. #25
    Has all the piri-piri! GeorgeTuk's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    Quote Originally Posted by Flibb View Post
    RAF must be pleased as punch to see the Bears in the air again, makes the Typhoon look like a good idea. Hadnt realised the range that the Bear has, nearly twice that of the Nimrod or AWACS. As to photos, heres a good one
    http://swisshornet.bleublog.ch/files...1145738369.jpg
    Its also bloomin' fast with contra-rotating propellors, an impressive bit of machinery!

    Stealth Geek - And Proud!

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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    Quote Originally Posted by iranu View Post
    Typhoon is turning out to be a very capable aircraft even in the air to ground role, which they will be performing in Afghanistan next year. Can't keep flying those Jags (now gone which was stupid cos they had a recent upgrade and are really good CAS platform) and Tornados forever. Airframes have a fatigue life and there's nothing you can do about that. As aircraft age they become very expensive to maintain a bit like an old banger that struggles to pass it's MOT. I used to work as a repair engineer for Roll Royce primarily on the RB199 (with a bit of pegasus and adour thrown in) and I can tell you that at the time out of 230 ish aircraft the UK might have been able to put up about 60-70 due to spares issues, mainly caused by inadequate government funding - good job the cold war was over.

    Replacing it with F16/F18 gains might have been cheap but they are the same generation of fighters so gained nothing at the time. F22 - I doubt the yanks would let us in on it and we could only afford about 3 1/2 of them . Wait for F35? Well F35 was not even a program when Eurofighter was being drawn up in the eighties.
    Well, at the beginning of last year there was a lack of wheels for the Typhoon! As soon as we got a new one in, it was out on jacks and had the wheels nicked for another jet whilst going through acceptance. Even now there are jets that get robbed from to keep the others in the air. And this is normal for all the jets the RAF has. I even heard a rumour (this is how information gets around the RAF btw) that BAE even had stock issues and has to delay delivering the new jets for XI.

    The Typhoon is a very capable aircraft for how much it costs. The only aircraft that's supposedly more capable is the F22, but the increase in cost isn't matched by the increase in capability. In fact, we aren't allow to send the Typhoon up at the same time as the F22 any more after a test "that didn't happen" between the two .

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeTuk View Post
    Its also bloomin' fast with contra-rotating propellors, an impressive bit of machinery!
    It's also very loud. So loud in fact, that submarines can pick it up with sonar!

  11. #27
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerrard View Post
    The Typhoon is a very capable aircraft for how much it costs. The only aircraft that's supposedly more capable is the F22, but the increase in cost isn't matched by the increase in capability. In fact, we aren't allow to send the Typhoon up at the same time as the F22 any more after a test "that didn't happen" between the two .
    Are you saying there's someone out there who even thinks the F22 isn't better (time zone issues aside)? Or did the test show they were rather more equal than people thought?

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    Senior Amoeba iranu's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    Spares and equipment for all the services is a national disgrace. All political parties are to blame although Nulabor, Bliar and Broone really have screwed the Army big time and it's going to take a decade to fix it only if there is a proper increase in defence funding, so maybe a bit of Russian sabre rattling can help. Having said that we are engaged in two medium sized wars and yet that still hasn't managed to jolt the government into action.

    I remember seeing WAH-64's come off the production line and have flight testing delayed cos they may have needed to strip some spares for those in service. It's a bloody expensive and inefficient system of providing spares support! It's crap and anyone connected with the services knows about it.

    F22 is state of the art but so expensive, the costs outweigh the benefits to all but the USA. I'm not going to get into the F/A22 v Typhoon willy waving thing.
    "Reality is what it is, not what you want it to be." Frank Zappa. ----------- "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." Huang Po.----------- "A drowsy line of wasted time bathes my open mind", - Ride.

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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    Speaking with some guys who go and test the Typhoon in the US (far easier to get permission to blow stuff up in the Nevada desert than one of the Scottish islands) said that they put both of them up against each other, to test things like detection and dogfighting ability. However, if you were to ask the American MOD about it, this never happened as both aircraft have never been in the same airspace at the same time. I don't know the details about it, but it obviously didn't go that well for the F22 otherwise the Americans would be screaming about their victory.

    Of course, this could just be part of the RAF rumour mill, but I believe that they are probably quite equal in a dogfight. If the Typhoon ever gets upgraded with the thrust vectoring that it was originally designed for, then I believe it would excel over the F22. Especially as that would allow the fin to be reduced in size, or even removed completely. Of course, costing half as much, it might be better to ask whether 2 Typhoons are better than 1 F22?

    Another thing that the Typhoon could well exceed at is ground attack. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tornado GR4's eventually get replaced with the Typhoon, which by that time will have been a more tried a tested platform than the F35.

  14. #30
    HEXUS.social member 99Flake's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    Typhoon was always built to be a multirole fighter, allowing it to fight its way in, bomb and fight back out of its target packages. Its first role was to replace the Tornado ADV though hence not many ground missions (and the lack of aircraft).

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    Has all the piri-piri! GeorgeTuk's Avatar
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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    Its never a case of whose best these days, most aircraft are specialised and perform there role more than adequatly. As 99Flake says the Typhoon is a multi-role aircraft and the company likes it to be called a 'swing' role aircraft for the exact situation 99Flake describes.

    And i think Iranu is right, there is no point getting into willy waving since its pointless, two different aircraft two different roles.

    As for F-35 we are buying those to replace the ancient Harriers in the fleet, looking at 8 years ahead the RAF/RN are going to have a very capable and very effective force to use, sure expensive but what isn't these days.

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    Re: Russia restarts cold war patrols

    He,He, Well at least the RAF got their Typhoons into the air yesterday to escort the Bears away --not like last month then 2 Tu overflew Aberdeen. - Must have caused the RAF a lot of embarrassment .

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