Just read PC Pro's review...

[Stringent]

They tried to make a games console? I missed that one.

The air is fancy in design. But its way out the price range for the average user, and IMO if you want an ultra poratble device, you don't want to be carrying around with you a USB hub, extra USB dongles and DVD drive which doesn't work on anything else. Also, its well known in lappy circles, the battery gives out after a few years, so one buys a spare anyways. Can't easily replace the Airs battery, gets sent off to Apple for 'repair' as if its something you have done.

I agree with the guys thoughts on Apple in PC Pro. If this was MS or Dell or someone there would be more people with pitchforks outside their offices. But because its Apple, no one really batters an eyelid.

[TheAnimus]

Apple Pippin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

far too pricy, far too propreitry, and with no games.

hmm it might as well be one of their latest products

[dangel]

They tried to make a games console? I missed that one.

Don't worry, they're rumoured to be doing it again. Oh joy.

[TheAnimus]

It could be great, first off you won't have that pesky problem of too many games to choose from, and secondly it won't take up your whole life playing them, because you'll of already completed them 2 years ago on the xbox/ps3/wii/pc

[nichomach]

It could be great, first off you won't have that pesky problem of too many games to choose from, and secondly it won't take up your whole life playing them, because you'll of already completed them 2 years ago on the xbox/ps3/wii/pc

QFT; of course you'll also be paying for "high-end" graphics which are a mid-range PC adapter from about 18 months ago, so the 2 year-old games are probably a good thing...

[nichomach]

but the question is do they?
if an off the shelf operating system, by another vendor runs faster?

I THINK that was my point...

[Stringent]

Apple Pippin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

far too pricy, far too propreitry, and with no games.

hmm it might as well be one of their latest products

First glance looks like an N64 ...

[MadduckUK]

nothing wrong with proprietary things on games systems. its pretty much the norm. price and especially games are killers though of course

as i remember, apple is planning (or thought to be planning at least) to make a handheld gaming thing this time. so a cross between a PSP and an ipod touch sounds like what we should expect... and doesn't sound too bad

[DR]

but the question is do they?

if an off the shelf operating system, by another vendor runs faster?

Is the price premium, and obvious innovation premium (missing out on many little things that other platforms take for granted) acceptable?

If apple had entered the mobile phone world 4 years ago, then yes. But as it stands now, even the mobile phone world won't tolerate their practices.

Remeber how badly burnt they where when they tried to make a games console.

So you mean things like the MacPro which is cheaper than Dell - according to a many sources, better build quality, quieter, and such?

There is Apple products which do not punish on the premium 'perceived' quality...

[TheAnimus]

I THINK that was my point...

I wanted an awnser from DR

So you mean things like the MacPro which is cheaper than Dell - according to a many sources, better build quality, quieter, and such?

There is Apple products which do not punish on the premium 'perceived' quality...

Which MacPro is this? the xeon thing?

[Stringent]

nothing wrong with proprietary things on games systems. its pretty much the norm. price and especially games are killers though of course

as i remember, apple is planning (or thought to be planning at least) to make a handheld gaming thing this time. so a cross between a PSP and an ipod touch sounds like what we should expect... and doesn't sound too bad

They should have brought out the PSP Phone with touch capability or something. There was a concept for the PSP Phone, that thing looked neato!

[DR]

I wanted an awnser from DR

Which MacPro is this? the xeon thing?

Yep

Some Apple products are expensive, some aren't some are crap, some aren't the one thing which they all are is Solutions which Dell and others can't compete with - remember Apple do control everything - unlike Dell who literally bolt on Vista as such

[Raz316]

The Air also looks thin due to the way it has been engineered - it has thin sides and they gentle go in to a thicker part.

Thank you! I've said that to someone (well, I said it's basically the same thickness as an eeepc) and they thought I was talking rubbish.

[nichomach]

Yep
Some Apple products are expensive, some aren't some are crap, some aren't the one thing which they all are is Solutions which Dell and others can't compete with - remember Apple do control everything - unlike Dell who literally bolt on Vista as such

Then the Macbook Air must be a solution looking for a problem. Sorry, DR, but I don't buy it. Apple realised that their own OS was crap, and basically opted for a tarted about with BSD Unix. This they are now installing on some relatively generic hardware. They DON'T control everything; unless of course X3100 integrated graphics for instance is somehow different on their machines compared to everyone else's.

MS cooperate closely with leading OEMs and validate their hardware solutions; you don't get that "Designed for..." logo unless your hardware is validated. Dell, HP, Lenovo and others don't just "bolt on" Vista (or any other version of Windows); their hardware is designed from the ground up to work with it - and they've probably got just as much say (if not more so) with people like Intel over hardware development as Apple do.

We can argue that Windows is crap (I wouldn't disagree in a lot of cases), but I think the difference between Apple and MS/their partners is far less than a bald "Apple control everything and Dell just bolt stuff together" statement allows.

[TheAnimus]

often apple, like dell, use their weight to get a pick of the little with compoents. Apple buy so much flash memory.

Often however, they don't, they buy some of the worst going. Apple have a history of doing this with important components such as laptop HDDs, the ones manafacturerd "under apple specs" where found to be far more prone to failure. It could be argued that this was because they where chasing bleeding edge technologies, rather than cost cutting.

It could also be argued that there are many worse manafacturers out there.


As for controlling the Experiance from start too finish, no, they don't.

They go further than most on the market, but they are still heavily reliant on 3rd party software (office suite, worthwhile browser, and of course BSD)

But as nichomach points out they don't make any hardware. MS realised that it makes sense to allow their WHQL and DFW teams to operate as non-profit devisions. My cheap as chips Fujitsu Siemans laptop has not crashed once running Vista, whilst constantly giving me very snappy performance. For a nice low price tag too.

[Marcos]

I don't think they are; you hit the nail on the head - the M1330 packs WAY more punch in terms of power and connectivity for very little more weight. And it's a shedload cheaper. How is that lazy?

i was just complaining about the aesthetics and feel of the product, its a simple fact, Mac laptops feel leagues ahead of Dells in quality.

spec wise i applaud the XPS series