The OFFICIAL Hexus Pre-Budget Report (Nov 2008) thread

[Saracen]

As the measures become clear, I'll try to keep post #1 in this thread reasonably accurate and complete. We can then use it as a reference of the inevitable discussions that will follow about whether we like it or not, and whether we think it'll work or not.

• VAT reduced from 17.5% to 15%, effective December 1st, for 13 months. Reverts to 17.5% at start of 2010.NO date specified, but looks like Jan 1st, 2011
  
  
• In May 2008, special ONE YEAR increase in Income Tax PAs of £120 announced, as compensation for removal of 10P. That will become permanent, and increase to £145 as of 6th April, 2009
  
  
• all rates of National Insurance (employer and employee) increase by 0/5% from April 2011
  
  
• Starting point for NI raised to same point as Income tax, so nobody on less than £20k will pay increased NI.
  
  
• from April 2011, new 45% Income tax band of 45% starting at 150,000
  
  
• withdraw "long-standing" anomaly in Income Tax PA's whereby higher rate taxpayers get twice the benefit of PAs as basic rate taxpayers.
  
  This affects top 2% of taxpayers, with incomes over £100,000
  
  For £100,000 to £140,000 - the value of PA's reduced to they get the same benefot as basic rate taxpayers
  
  For incomes over £140,000, remove the full value of the PAs altogether
  
  
• maintain the ceiling on tax relief for people with pension fund's up to £1.8 million until 2015/16.
  
  
• Excise duty on tobacco, alcohol and fuel (petrol/diesel) to rise to offset VAT reduction announced above
  
  
  

[Funkstar]

Can I put in an early prediction?

No matter what is announced or detailed, the Conservatives would have done it differently and Labour/Gordon Brown is an idiot. But then clearly the Conservatives/David Cameron doesn't know what he is speaking about as the Liberal Democrats would have some things just a little bit different.

And on here everyone will complain that it doesn't help them, clearly xyz would have been a better approach.

I think we can lock the thread now, it's all been covered

[Saracen]

There's another thread for predictions. Can we leave it to the actual measures and opinions, please. Though yes, you're right.

[0iD]

From the BEEB
Live text: Pre-Budget report
Q&A: pre-Budget report

[stytagm]

Economics aside, this is going to ruin my week! Most of our clients (ecommerce) want to pass on the savings, and while the codebase I work on will support the tax rate change relatively painlessly, we're still going to have to implement 2000+ price changes and test that the rate change wont cause problems with their warehouse systems (our sums have to match their sums perfectly, or alarm bells ring).

PITA for the sake of a couple of pence off here and there. And we're lucky that our code is decently written, the last VAT rate change was in 1992 (iirc) which was before ecommerce was invented, I'll bet huge numbers of people had assumed VAT was a constant they'd never have to change and hard coded it.

[merdat]

Take the case of the roads haulage people. The vat has gone down to 15% and there is to be an increase on the fuel tax sometime soon. Now the hauliers claim back the vat so they will be getting less back and their fuel costs will go up. - bet they will be jumping for joy, NOT!. Everything associated with road transport will go up in price for the rest of us.

[manwithnoname]

Just heard interview with a trucker pointing out he could claim vat back on fuel - so the reduction in vat to 15% and the fuel duty (petrol/diesel) rise to offset VAT reduction means increased delivery costs - how nice Darling.

EDIT: I took so long typing merdat beat me to it...

[aidanjt]

Take the case of the roads haulage people. The vat has gone down to 15% and there is to be an increase on the fuel tax sometime soon. Now the hauliers claim back the vat so they will be getting less back and their fuel costs will go up. - bet they will be jumping for joy, NOT!. Everything associated with road transport will go up in price for the rest of us.

Which means the price of everything goes up, which makes this VAT cut a completely useless (and expensive) exercise.

[badass]

More relevant than the figure of £118 billion to be borrowed next year is the fact it equates to over £2000 borrowed for every man, woman and child in this country.
Maybe they are planning on bundling all of their debts into 1 easy repayment by getting a consolidation loan to pay for it

[Jay]

what a bloody nightmare its going to be changing the VAT on POS

[manwithnoname]

what a bloody nightmare its going to be changing the VAT on POS

not too bad if you're a struggling shop - you can just make the vat adjustment when you change your prices for your closing down sale.

[Steve]

Are labour trying to ruin as much as they can so that when the conservatives get elected, there'll be nothing that they can do to fix it, resulting in a labour re-election a few years later?

[0iD]

Lower tax now & putting up National Insurance payments later.

[kalniel]

The planned increases on car tax have also been delayed/capped.

[Andy3536]

Are labour trying to ruin as much as they can so that when the conservatives get elected, there'll be nothing that they can do to fix it, resulting in a labour re-election a few years later?

You got to give it to him it's one hell of a plan



Although 60 years down the line we'll still have high taxes to pay back what Gordon and Darling have spent.

[Saracen]

You got to give it to him it's one hell of a plan



Although 60 years down the line we'll still have high taxes to pay back what Gordon and Darling have spent.

It's a hell of a plan as long as Brown doesn't win the next election. If he does, and if HE has to sort out the mess, then the blame that Labour get then could keep Labour out of office for a generation. It might almost be worth five more years of Brown.

The problem is, though, that if that happens, we get five more years of the incompetent muppet.

If it doesn't the Tories win, we then get to find out if Cameron/Osborne are anything better than the upper class PR men they appear to be.


In the words of Dad's Army's Frazier ..... "We're doooomed, I tell ye. Doooooomed".