Pop goes the Equality

[TheAnimus]

Pope in attack on UK equality law

Pope Benedict urges Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8492597.stm

So apparently we are wanting to have a bill that helps remind people that we are all equal, this is obviously against the wishes of the pope, who evidentially hasn't been touched by the almighty noodly appendage.

Is it OK to discriminate against people because its your religious belief? Can I discriminate against the welsh because I find contributing nothing goes against my deeply held beliefs of the meaning of life?

Who draws the line?

[MadduckUK]

Is it OK to discriminate against people because its your religious belief?

i should hope so, has to be some perks to it.

[Salazaar]

Ex-nazi, religious zealot opposes law which would compromise catholic bigotry, shocker.

[Nick]

Awesome... Catholic fatwa!

In the name of equality, we should ban the Pope for incitement, just as we have banned and deported Muslim clerics.

The irony is, to be honest, exquisite.

[GheeTsar]

That man/organisation has completely lost the plot.

I wonder why church attendance keeps going down.

[Fraz]

The Pope is an old, brain-dead moron.

[Saracen]

So the Poop believes that all people are equal, but some are more equal than others.

There's something distinctly Animal Farm-esque about that.

[Saracen]

The Pope is an old, brain-dead moron.

Come on Fraz, stop sitting on the fence and say what you really think (*).


(*) within our rules, of course

[Nick]

Hehe, come on people get a grip... it's not like what he preaches is often morally wrong causing untold misery to millions in the name of religion... oh, wait...

[scaryjim]

Can I discriminate against the welsh because I find contributing nothing goes against my deeply held beliefs of the meaning of life?

Sure, you *personally* can discriminate against anyone you want to. That's your right as a human being. Personally, I think there are better causes than the Welsh to discriminate against (and Lancastrians, for example ), but that's just my opinion (which I am, of course, entitled to ).

In the workplace, of course, you shouldn't be discriminated against for anything that wouldn't affect your ability to carry out the full functions of your job. But as a minister of religion one of the functions of your job is to uphold the tenets of your religion. If you are openly gay, you cannot also represent a religion that condemns homosexuality. You wouldn't be able to do the job properly, because (among other reasons) you would not have the full respect of your congregation. So the Catholic Church banning openly gay priests isn't actually discrimination: it's setting a reasonable requirement of the job.

Of course, if they try to take that attitude outside their own walls, they've stepped over the line and need treading on. But I have no issue with them applying whatever standards they wish to their own employees.

[Phage]

Sure, you *personally* can discriminate against anyone you want to. That's your right as a human being. Personally, I think there are better causes than the Welsh to discriminate against (and Lancastrians, for example ), but that's just my opinion (which I am, of course, entitled to ).

In the workplace, of course, you shouldn't be discriminated against for anything that wouldn't affect your ability to carry out the full functions of your job. But as a minister of religion one of the functions of your job is to uphold the tenets of your religion. If you are openly gay, you cannot also represent a religion that condemns homosexuality. You wouldn't be able to do the job properly, because (among other reasons) you would not have the full respect of your congregation. So the Catholic Church banning openly gay priests isn't actually discrimination: it's setting a reasonable requirement of the job.

Of course, if they try to take that attitude outside their own walls, they've stepped over the line and need treading on. But I have no issue with them applying whatever standards they wish to their own employees.

And this is the key issue.
The religious have the right to practice their religion.
The secular have the right not to.
These possibly collide in employment law.

Why has no-one asked the question whether any gay people actually want to work for such a church ? How can they reconcile the cognitive dissonance that they wish to be part of a church that hates them ?

[Salazaar]

In the workplace, of course, you shouldn't be discriminated against for anything that wouldn't affect your ability to carry out the full functions of your job. But as a minister of religion one of the functions of your job is to uphold the tenets of your religion. If you are openly gay, you cannot also represent a religion that condemns homosexuality. You wouldn't be able to do the job properly, because (among other reasons) you would not have the full respect of your congregation. So the Catholic Church banning openly gay priests isn't actually discrimination: it's setting a reasonable requirement of the job.

So you're saying it's okay to discriminate when the job itself is built around discrimination?

Isn't that rather self fulfilling?

[shaithis]

In the workplace, of course, you shouldn't be discriminated against for anything that wouldn't affect your ability to carry out the full functions of your job.

With the amount of thick-accented-with-broken-English Indians in out-sourced/off-shored call centres, I thought you had to positively discriminate towards people who lacked the main ability needed to perform their job

[finlay666]

you shouldn't be discriminated against for anything that wouldn't affect your ability to carry out the full functions of your job

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...n-Braille.html

Hackney carriage licences available in Braille, somehow I think discriminating on a visual disability for a driver is an important and valid discrimination

[AledJ]

I think the Pope should shut and put up with a changing world!!! Plus after all the child abuse cases from within the Catholic church he has no leg to stand on!!

[scaryjim]

So you're saying it's okay to discriminate when the job itself is built around discrimination?

The job isn't built around discrimination, the job is built around a set of beliefs. Believing that homosexual practice is immoral isn't discrimination.

Refusing to let someone work in a bank because they are gay *is* discrimination. Refusing to give an openly / actively gay person a job which requires them to condemn homosexuality as immoral is, IMNSHO, a different matter. They are there as a spokesman and representative for that religion. You wouldn't appoint Nick Griffin as the public spokesperson for an immigration-supporting charity...

Why has no-one asked the question whether any gay people actually want to work for such a church ?

I haven't asked because I don't need to. I've known openly gay Catholics and Anglicans who felt called to be priests. But they don't want to get there because an external influence forces the church to allow them; they want to persuade the Church to change to accept them. Ultimately this will drive some gay christians away from Catholicism: whether they then turn to other branches of church that are more liberal, or they move away from christianity altogether, is another matter...

Hackney carriage licences available in Braille, somehow I think discriminating on a visual disability for a driver is an important and valid discrimination

Lol, a standard "alternate forms are available" paragraph picked on by the Torygraph. No story there. I think the council spokesperson gave a perfectly reasonable response - and it's probably a lot cheaper to have the printer / designer just add the standard boxed text than pay them to redesign it for every form. I'm pretty sure they don't have a stock of those forms printed in Braille in the store room - if anyone ever asked for one they'd print it specially. It was the same when I worked in Housing Benefit - we had that standard paragraph*, but we only kept stock of the standard print english form. Special versions could be produced on request at a couple of days notice...

*I should point out that this wasn't at the same Council though - but the "also available in" paragraph is pretty much standard for every public body...