Apple iPhone 4G - Police seize Jason Chen computers

[Whiternoise]

LOL you are kidding me right? They even ask Apple if this was theirs and they didn't respond to them. It was only after they published this on the Internet that they are getting rapped for it. They even gave the iPhone back to them after Apple acknowledged it was theirs.

Um.. that may be true, but in most countries buying stolen goods regardless of whether you're being a good Samaritan, is illegal. It's a bit like finding weed growing in your garden, you're not legally allowed to touch it (possession), cut it down (cultivation) or heaven forbid burn it even if you think that you're just getting rid of it you have to go to the police first. We don't know if Apple has pushed for the search warrant, as far as I can tell Apple are being remarkably civil about the whole thing (given what an absolute tits up they've made of it). This is more likely to be a separate police investigation.

What I don't get is that they guy called Apple who fair enough had no idea what he was on about, but the fact that he lived 20 miles from Cupertino. Why didn't he just go to Apple HQ and deliver it in person or at least try? Others have mentioned that the Apple employee's Facebook account was active on the phone when he found it - he didn't try to go to see the guy to sort it out or even email him. Either way, even if he should have sat it out until Apple listened, the right way of going about it is *not* flogging it on eBay. He should have sent a photo of the device to Apple customer support (which they claim he didn't, he just asked them) or one of the higher up execs which would have sorted this out. But anyway, the list could go on, there were a myriad things he could have tried before selling it.

My opinion? They want to be absolutely sure that all the evidence about the phone is destroyed and that Chen hasn't got any "secret" information that he's holding back.

Were Gizmodo right to publish all that information? Maybe. They ran a very though provoking article about it and I agree that Apple shouldn't have total control over how their products are reported on. However, this was a fiasco that could have been avoided by the person who found it taking a little more effort (yes he tried, but IMO he didn't try hard enough).

[finlay666]

We don't know if Apple has pushed for the search warrant, as far as I can tell Apple are being remarkably civil about the whole thing (given what an absolute tits up they've made of it). This is more likely to be a separate police investigation.

More than likely they did, as most of the lawyers in California who have any knowledge of journalism laws have picked apart the warrant to show it is illegal and invalid (there are laws to protect journalists from things such as this, including divulging who their sources/informants are)

What I don't get is that they guy called Apple who fair enough had no idea what he was on about, but the fact that he lived 20 miles from Cupertino. Why didn't he just go to Apple HQ and deliver it in person or at least try?

Having been near Cupertino (Palo Alto) previously while working for a rival company, unless they knew in advance you were coming any press/rival company would swiftly been shown the door with the tight security (I had to be vetted on site as an employee by their security and as I wasn't an employee there I had severely limited access to even common buildings). It's the same with all the big software companies in the Valley, there is so much under wraps that anyone who shouldn't be there does not get further. To be honest I'm amazed the guy still has his job considering they have their own Gestapo to stop leaks as well as an employee who showed Woz the iPad just before launch was sacked.

I think there is a LOT more that we aren't finding out that is key to how this story comes together

[SammEl]

Do you really think Apple would respond to Gizmodo? This is a secret prototype, or possibly the final design of the new iPhone, and from what has been said, it was originally stolen, correct?

Apple have done a great job, it's gone from all about the new iPhone to someone having their house raided due to paying for apparent stolen goods.

Surely if it was stolen, and Gizmodo paid someone for it, they should have a record of who it is?

I was surprised Gizmodo went public with the phone, and to associate it with them directly, why not just upload a video from a fake IP onto YouTube?

[Perfectionist]

Apple going over the top...

How unlike them.

"Received thanks from:
dbh (Today), Perfectionist (Today), Phage (Today), TheAnimus (Today), [GSV]Trig (Today)"

Big whoop,

Gizmodo paid $5000 for stolen goods. That's a felony, they're getting rapped for it.

lololol "Received thanks from: Steve (Today)" [HEXUS webmaster]

I guess HEXUS are jealous they didn't get sent any info and were left out in the cold.

It wasn't stolen, it was found left in a bar, with no mention of who the owner was on it. No laws broken whatsoever, they didn't even have any legal obligation to send it to Apple when they threatened in the first place.

[SammEl]

$5000? It's been reported as $10000 also?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...paid-iphone-4g

[finlay666]

Do you really think Apple would respond to Gizmodo? This is a secret prototype, or possibly the final design of the new iPhone, and from what has been said, it was originally stolen, correct?

Stolen in the sense that the employee lost it in public and someone found it.

Surely if it was stolen, and Gizmodo paid someone for it, they should have a record of who it is?

Re-read my post and adjust yours accordingly, as a journalism company in California there are laws to protect them from having to divulge this information, similar to anonymous evidence in trials. The person concerned is anonymous to prevent blowback from other parties. Interestingly these laws also protect journalists from search warrantys because of this information no longer being secret, which was broken according to the reports.

http://gizmodo.com/5524843/police-se...hens-computers

I was surprised Gizmodo went public with the phone, and to associate it with them directly, why not just upload a video from a fake IP onto YouTube?

Internet traffic and bandwidth resulting in increased revenue...... EVERY news article is talking about how they got it, suggests they are at the cutting edge and as such receive a lot of revenue from the new traffic

To upload an anonymous video is stupid. Google can get the IP of who uploaded it, they can get a lot more too from the metadata attached, as well as it means they get none of the credit.


Perfectionist, IIRC under US laws they were required to return it or attempt to, I think Apple got narky because they said they can have it back if they confirmed it was a prototype

I'm surprised Apple didn't send in ninjas to get it back....

[megah0]

My understanding of those laws in California were to protect jounalists who were dealing with criminals from having to reveal their sources, NOT where the journalists have committed the crime themselves.

It is a very flimsy defence in my opinion

[finlay666]

My understanding of those laws in California were to protect jounalists who were dealing with criminals from having to reveal their sources, NOT where the journalists have committed the crime themselves.

It is a very flimsy defence in my opinion

Well they have dealt with a criminal in whoever had the device first... and why they didn't return it, TBH there are a pile of holes in both arguments (including why a warrant for a DAY search was conducted at 9:45pm) and also why the judge granted it and the laws that were ignored for the editors rights.

Both sides are flimsy and they are blowing it out of proportion, if they contacted Gizmodo and cut them a deal on the return of it (say exclusive news on actual release and compensated them for the purchase of the prototype) no one would be any the wiser lol

[megah0]

Well they have dealt with a criminal in whoever had the device first... and why they didn't return it, TBH there are a pile of holes in both arguments (including why a warrant for a DAY search was conducted at 9:45pm) and also why the judge granted it and the laws that were ignored for the editors rights.

Both sides are flimsy and they are blowing it out of proportion, if they contacted Gizmodo and cut them a deal on the return of it (say exclusive news on actual release and compensated them for the purchase of the prototype) no one would be any the wiser lol

Yes, they dealt with a criminal.

Then when they handed over $5000 for the stolen goods, took it apart and publicly disseminated their findings they pretty much became criminals too.

Again, is there any proof that Apple prompted the police into taking action? This has been a hugely publicised case and the unit responsible for the raid is a specialist cybercrime division after all.

I guess they look at the online news now and again.

[finlay666]

Yes, they dealt with a criminal.

Then when they handed over $5000 for the stolen goods, took it apart and publicly disseminated their findings they pretty much became criminals too.

Again, is there any proof that Apple prompted the police into taking action? This has been a hugely publicised case and the unit responsible for the raid is a specialist cybercrime division after all.

I guess they look at the online news now and again.

They have, but I don't think a warrant seizing everything for handling stolen property is very strong

If the unit is a specialist how come they can't tell the time or know the related laws? A raid at 9:45pm when it's not an authorised night search warrant starts off the first of many questions to the incompetencies in what has been done and how they did it.

Truth be told it will no doubt resort to a massive circle jerk of lawsuits between apple, gizmodo and the police with only one winner, the law firms concerned!

[Whiternoise]

"Received thanks from:
dbh (Today), Perfectionist (Today), Phage (Today), TheAnimus (Today), [GSV]Trig (Today)"
lololol "Received thanks from: Steve (Today)" [HEXUS webmaster]

I guess HEXUS are jealous they didn't get sent any info and were left out in the cold.

It wasn't stolen, it was found left in a bar, with no mention of who the owner was on it. No laws broken whatsoever, they didn't even have any legal obligation to send it to Apple when they threatened in the first place.

I'm sorry, what?

The guy found it in a bar, tried to give it back and then sold it on eBay. All good up until the last four words. If i find a phone in a pub and then flog it, that's me selling stolen goods. If i did find a phone and I couldn't contact the owner or get it back to him/her, i'd take it to the police - not make a quick buck on the bay. The finder lost all credibility when he did that.

I'm not saying that either Apple or Gizmodo are right or wrong. My point was that people shouldn't be surprised that this has happened. Even if the warrant and subsequent search was exceptionally dodgy and poorly executed, Gizmodo are still on the wrong side of the law here. We don't know all the sides of the story and until that happens it's all speculation.

Pretty much everyone involved in this fiasco is at fault, it's been a monumental tits up from start to finish

@Finlay - this is the US police we're talking about, they're not known for their subtlety or IQ

[megah0]

Truth be told it will no doubt resort to a massive circle jerk of lawsuits between apple, gizmodo and the police with only one winner, the law firms concerned!

No doubt.

But my point was that there is nothing to say that Apple are behind the raids. Gizmodo have clearly broken the law, if not several laws and are thus subject to prosecution.

Just trying to inject a little balance in amongst the sheeplike apple hate.

[finlay666]

No doubt.

But my point was that there is nothing to say that Apple are behind the raids. Gizmodo have clearly broken the law, if not several laws and are thus subject to prosecution.

Just trying to inject a little balance in amongst the sheeplike apple hate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not overly keen on Apple.

The only things I thought they did wrong were:
Let a prototype out of the building
Let an employee go out with the device
Handle matters with the company that had their device badly
Go all out when the poop hit the fan, they handled themselves poorly in this way.

[Whiternoise]

Gizmodo's account of why Apple didn't get it back are pretty reasonable.

http://gizmodo.com/5520729/why-apple...yline=true&s=i

I work for AppleCare as a tier 2 agent and before the whole thing about a leak hit the Internet the guy working next to me got the call from the guy looking to return the phone. From our point of view it seemed as a hoax or that the guy had a knockoff, internally apple doesn't tell us anything and we haven't gotten any notices or anything about a lost phone, much less anything stating we are making a new one. When the guy called us he gave us a vague description and couldn't provide pics, so like I mentioned previously, we thought it was a china knockoff the guy found. We wouldn't have any idea what to do with it and that's what sucks about working for apple, we're given just enough info to try and help people but not enough info to do anything if someone calls like this.

If the guy could have provided pictures it would have been sent to our engineers and then I'm sure we'd have gotten somewhere from there, but because we had so little to go on we pushed it off as bogus.

Apple are victims of their own security, sadly. That coupled with the lack of location finding support on the prototype (really really baffling - if you're going to test in the wild, surely location awareness is an absolute must) meant that it was pretty hard for them to just get it back.

[finlay666]

Apple are victims of their own security, sadly. That coupled with the lack of location finding support on the prototype (really really baffling - if you're going to test in the wild, surely location awareness is an absolute must) meant that it was pretty hard for them to just get it back.

I thought their mobile me software had location tracking via GPS? I know there was a story of someone recovering their phone by this method using the GPS to track the guy that stole it and recovering it the same day

[megah0]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not overly keen on Apple.

The only things I thought they did wrong were:
Let a prototype out of the building
Let an employee go out with the device
Handle matters with the company that had their device badly
Go all out when the poop hit the fan, they handled themselves poorly in this way.

Points 1-3 are covered by the notion of "testing in the wild", they have to this sort of thing to iron out problems and gremlins that just don't rear their heads in lab based tests.

Point 4 is covered in the post above

How exactly are they supposed to react when another company effectively steals their secret unreleased device and spills their secrets across the internet? They have sunk millions of dollars into the design and research of the device and have no doubt spent yet more millions on a marketing campaign which has just been pre-empted by some jumped up blogger who didn't exactly try very hard to re-unite apple with the device.

How have Apple gone "all out"?