McVitie's Maker United Biscuits TO Shanghai’s biggest food and dairy company

[Hicks12]

Just a note, was kinda joking with my post... im fine with it as long as they keep the current jobs in england because that isnt that the cause of most problems now? Unemployment and the fact all these jobs are moving abroad keeping their economies afloat but ours failing?.

[petercook7]

I take offence too your bringing in a posters race in part b.... Actually no I dont.

News flash!

People who aren't white CAN be xenophobic.

But you know what I find odd, it doesn't matter at all, even a dog can be a xenophobe.

So why is it worse that its been bought by a chinese firm? Is that worse than if it was a private equitiy consortium?
Ah yes, the free market, its pure 100% evil you know. Only marxist theory will ever help 'the worker'.
Right, racisim is not the same as xenophobia.

I will say you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about the differences and the fear of foreign firms. That much from your posting is obvious, along with the assertion that everyday people are blind to the fear because they are financially ignorant.

So, I say quite clearly, read your posts and say how you are not been xenophobic. You are worrying about a foriegn firm buying a UK firm.

Clearly its a nice way of saying racist

Now you might say that they are sure to close down UK production and move it to china, maybe. But as we've seen plenty of UK owned and operated firms are happy to move to offshoring.

There is a seperate issue about the demise of unskilled work opertunities in the UK. But before we go into this, lets remember why that is. People in the UK are not willing to work as hard for as little, when someone else can do the job for better value (ie might not be as good, but you can have two for the price of one).

That is the ultimate problem, and the best way to solve that is to improve the living standards of those who are taking the jobs, because once the pay difference is not so great, it will be better for all.

People are willing to work hard, not willing to work for free? everyone has the right to a good life, years ago you would have got a social home so there wasnt a need to be paid a lot, these days you dont get the opportunity to get social home and hence need higher wages.

Apart from that, the restrictions towards building in this country is madness, if your going to have high restricitions then the government is responsible for a decent level of house building to support its citizens which in reality they have denied them, for their own and land owners interests.

High land prices means high production costs means companies need to look elsewhere, low wages mean the inability to afford a productive standard of living, but unlike companies the poor of this country cant relocate to other nations because they dont have the funds and they would be economic migrants and would not be given help, they are at top level in living standard based countries but at the bottom level in that country, ill expand on this later.

However I bet most of the things you buy are made to a low price point, and your a direct cause of this type of activity. Myself I don't buy McVities, so I really couldn't care less. But I do find shocking the lack of tolerance of other countries having business intrests in the UK, as someone who's spent the majority of his working life, working for foreign firms, I'm very greatful for the opptortunities they've afforded me.

Sometimes you have no option, even expensive goods are made in low paid economies, you as a consumer cant get away from it. look at ipods expensive yet made in cheap countries? so that part of you responce dont hold water.

[petercook7]

Just a note, was kinda joking with my post... im fine with it as long as they keep the current jobs in england because that isnt that the cause of most problems now? Unemployment and the fact all these jobs are moving abroad keeping their economies afloat but ours failing?.

Where do you think the profits goto? you think'll they stay in the country? what happens to of current account? just a few bits of things you need to think about.
After a while it just gets exported why keep hiring people in a high income economy when its a lots cheaper to export to them. A service based economy isnt stable, and is the most easy to export, having an economy selling ourslef houses based on debt ends up bad, having nothing to export is bad, service jobs can be transfered at a flick of a switch, physical ecomony is much harder and takes decades to transfer, knowledge becomes easy as the decades progress and service industry take upto 2 years to transfer.
We as going to be selling houses and working in starbucks over the next 50s years, what your father had you'll never had, no more free education, medical help, pensions etc.. that will be gone there isnt room to support it, the baby boomers have bankrupted this country.

The baby boomers stole from there pervious generations and now stealing form our and the generations that come after, they took more than what they put in, and we put in more than we take.

The media focus on unemployed but the real problems are the pensioners why the ytell you they worked all there life, yes but they havent put in as much as you have into the pot, infact they are stealing your wealth now and into the future. People that 45 and under who vote labour/lib/cons are fools those parties arnt working for you they are woking agaisnt you.

[TheAnimus]

Clearly its a nice way of saying racist

If anything about my posting history (and why mods keep reminding me) i'm generally not one to pull punches.

Your not been racist, your been xenophobic, there is a big difference.

You are scared about other countires having business interests in ours. Now, given how britain was quite uniquely sucessful in many nefarious trades (just ask China!) its a short sighted at best, hypocritical at worst view point to hold.

Yet I wouldn't say racist, so, I say Xenophobic, if you disagree, read up on the defintion of the term and I think you will see how quickly it can be applied to many of your posts. It is also fear of unknown too.

People are willing to work hard, not willing to work for free? everyone has the right to a good life, years ago you would have got a social home so there wasnt a need to be paid a lot, these days you dont get the opportunity to get social home and hence need higher wages.

No, no they don't.

I don't believe in birth right to anything. Why should someone have a much much much better life just because they are born to someone in the UK, rather than someone elsewhere? Where is it you draw the line, should London be funding say wales? (which is a net drain)?

Apart from that, the restrictions towards building in this country is madness, if your going to have high restricitions then the government is responsible for a decent level of house building to support its citizens which in reality they have denied them, for their own and land owners interests.

High land prices means high production costs means companies need to look elsewhere, low wages mean the inability to afford a productive standard of living, but unlike companies the poor of this country cant relocate to other nations because they dont have the funds and they would be economic migrants and would not be given help, they are at top level in living standard based countries but at the bottom level in that country, ill expand on this later.

Totally agree.

The problem is land is finite, and there are entire villages that are simply demolished because no one wants to live there. Instead of all the stupid things the government has been throwing money at, we should have been improving transport infrastructure. Stopping the insaine variation of pricing in London (roughly 10% per zone, it takes about 10 mins to cycle a zone!)

Sometimes you have no option, even expensive goods are made in low paid economies, you as a consumer cant get away from it. look at ipods expensive yet made in cheap countries? so that part of you responce dont hold water.

Nice thing about free market, there are always options, plenty of alternatives to cadburies, plenty of alternatives to these biscuit manafactuers.

Its just most people wont care, plenty will have been buying tesco value anyway......

The iPod there are some increidble bespoke things made in the UK, at a price to match. But you can't beat the mass production price of a firm like foxconn.

[petercook7]

If anything about my posting history (and why mods keep reminding me) i'm generally not one to pull punches.

Your not been racist, your been xenophobic, there is a big difference.

You are scared about other countires having business interests in ours. Now, given how britain was quite uniquely sucessful in many nefarious trades (just ask China!) its a short sighted at best, hypocritical at worst view point to hold.

Yet I wouldn't say racist, so, I say Xenophobic, if you disagree, read up on the defintion of the term and I think you will see how quickly it can be applied to many of your posts. It is also fear of unknown too.No, no they don't.

I don't believe in birth right to anything. Why should someone have a much much much better life just because they are born to someone in the UK, rather than someone elsewhere? Where is it you draw the line, should London be funding say wales? (which is a net drain)?Totally agree.

The problem is land is finite, and there are entire villages that are simply demolished because no one wants to live there. Instead of all the stupid things the government has been throwing money at, we should have been improving transport infrastructure. Stopping the insaine variation of pricing in London (roughly 10% per zone, it takes about 10 mins to cycle a zone!)
Nice thing about free market, there are always options, plenty of alternatives to cadburies, plenty of alternatives to these biscuit manafactuers.

Its just most people wont care, plenty will have been buying tesco value anyway......

The iPod there are some increidble bespoke things made in the UK, at a price to match. But you can't beat the mass production price of a firm like foxconn.

Dictionary definitions of xenophobia include: deep-rooted antipathy towards foreigners (Oxford English Dictionary; OED), unreasonable fear or hatred of the unfamiliar, especially people of other races (Webster's) very close to the term racism.


Without certain rights we wouldnt have a civilization it part of the parcel, so yes we should expect some rights from birth to grave, however the government isnt providing what it should , in the right way, infact the government is the cause of most or our social problems because she restricts certain civil rights and creating obstacles to life.

You talk about alternatives to products yet you forget that different brands come from the same company even different companies come from the same company if you look hard enough.

You refer to foxcom they make all off nvidias cards, at the start of the product line there is possible only a few companies the others leech of there labour to make a profit.

There things that the average english man wouldnt even possibly understand how life really works, it is so unthinkable what goes on behind some cooporate and govenment departments that it restricted to a few and bound by laws that we dont comprehend, so savage.

[scaryjim]

unthinkable? That people make money in a capitalist society? I'm probably fairly well known on here as an ardent anti-capitalist, but frankly that's the world we live in.The system sucks, but it's a bit harsh to rat on those people and companies who are good at living in it.

Anyway, to demonstrate how "British" United Biscuits are, here's an exerpt from our old friend Wikipedia:

The Company was listed on the London Stock Exchange and was once a constituent of the FTSE 100 Index but in December 2006 it was acquired by a consortium of Blackstone Group and PAI Partners.

That's the Blackstone Group, an asset management and financial services company based in New York, and PAI Partners, a French private equity firm. You may recognise the names as having been quoted in your original post - but I don't suppose you bothered checking whether they were British firms or not. Or is it acceptable for the Americans and French to own British firms, but not the Chinese?

Complaining that a "British" company is being bought by a foreign company, and in particular your use of the phrase "when do we stop when we have nothing left." reeks of xenophobia. It gives the distinct impression that you are complaining about "foreigners" buying a British company, rather than it remaining in British hands. i.e. you are demonstrating antipathy towards foreigners == xenophobia.

[PeterStoba]

It was always going to happen, I can't see the problem, as long as the production is still based in the UK, which seems sensible...

To be honest, as long as they don't ruin hobnobs, I don't mind!

[matty-hodgson]

With McVitie's being one of the main employers in Carlisle, this could be quite bad for Carlisle and the surrounding area..

Let's hope they keep the UK factories open

[petercook7]

unthinkable? That people make money in a capitalist society? I'm probably fairly well known on here as an ardent anti-capitalist, but frankly that's the world we live in.The system sucks, but it's a bit harsh to rat on those people and companies who are good at living in it.

Anyway, to demonstrate how "British" United Biscuits are, here's an exerpt from our old friend Wikipedia:



That's the Blackstone Group, an asset management and financial services company based in New York, and PAI Partners, a French private equity firm. You may recognise the names as having been quoted in your original post - but I don't suppose you bothered checking whether they were British firms or not. Or is it acceptable for the Americans and French to own British firms, but not the Chinese?

Complaining that a "British" company is being bought by a foreign company, and in particular your use of the phrase "when do we stop when we have nothing left." reeks of xenophobia. It gives the distinct impression that you are complaining about "foreigners" buying a British company, rather than it remaining in British hands. i.e. you are demonstrating antipathy towards foreigners == xenophobia.

Equity firms normaly leave those conpanies and its assets in the same country, they only care about a future sell off and loading those companies with debt, a company in direct competition will not do the same they'll close down its factories and transfer the brand name, relocate factories to its home land or nation. Equity firms, normally dont do that as they arnt interested in production but in assets.

[scaryjim]

With McVitie's being one of the main employers in Carlisle, this could be quite bad for Carlisle and the surrounding area..

Let's hope they keep the UK factories open

You see, this is a comment I can get completely behind

I don't know what the UK-based workforce or unit output for UB is, but I'd assume it's pretty high, and I'd also assume that the UK is the primary market for most of their products, which would suggest that it would be counter-productive to move production out of the UK. But sadly, you can never tell with these things...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You see, this is a comment I can get completely behind

I don't know what the UK-based workforce or unit output for UB is, but I'd assume it's pretty high, and I'd also assume that the UK is the primary market for most of their products, which would suggest that it would be counter-productive to move production out of the UK. But sadly, you can never tell with these things...

Well, HP sauce and Daddies sauce used to be made in the UK and AFAIK this was the biggest market for these products. However,when HP was bought from Danone(they are Danish) by Heinz they closed down all UK production and transferred it to the Netherlands.

[matty-hodgson]

Well, HP sauce and Daddies sauce used to be made in the UK and AFAIK this was the biggest market for these products. However,when HP was bought from Danone(they are Danish) by Heinz they closed down all UK production and transferred it to the Netherlands.

Maybe they had their own countries interests at heart, which isn't good for the UK, but you can easily understand why they'd do it...

[scaryjim]

Equity firm ... arnt interested in production but in assets.

Because buying a company to asset strip and then sell for a profit later is much more ethically responsible...

Ultimately we won't know if this is a bad thing until a) the deal goes through, and b) we find out whether the UK based production facilities are shut. But there's certainly no call to start complaining about the foreigners buying are nice British companies, and even less so when those companies aren't even UK-owned any more. United Biscuits it not owned by the British public, it's owned by two private equity firms who are now looking to cash out their investment. This is not an issue for faux patriotism and "how dare those foreigners buy our lovely British companies".

Britain is an incredibly expensive company in which to run any kind of production facility because we have very high wage expectations and the associated overheads with owning and running factories here are very high. That's why so many British companies have gone to wall, and why many others are looking for buyers at the minute - they're not profitable and the only useful assets they have are their associated brand names. Realisically, the only things worth manufacturing in Britain and the ones that use raw materials we also produce: once you have to import ingredients / components there's no point. It's a real shame, and it makes for a very difficult job market (particularly for the "working classes" as was), but it's the reality of global markets and finances: it's cheaper to manufacture elsewhere and import to Britain than to make it here.

Sucks, doesn't it...

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Maybe they had their own countries interests at heart, which isn't good for the UK, but you can easily understand why they'd do it...

IIRC,Heinz already had a production plant in the Netherlands so they decided to move production there.

It seems now they moved production to Spain:

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/b...7319-21381317/

HP sauce had been produced in Birmingham for over 100 years.

[Funkstar]

HP sauce had been produced in Birmingham for over £100 years.

A bargain! I'll take 5

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

A bargain! I'll take 5

Now corrected!!