The sex education show

[G4Z]

Well, I am bored already and I am only a few days into my 2 weeks off work!

Going to go buy some quieter fans for my computer later on just for something to do...

In the meantime I opened up 4od and I have been watching the sex education show ( http://www.channel4.com/programmes/t...education-show ) and I thought you guys might like to have a discussion about it. You see I have a bit of a problem with these people setting themselves up as some sort of authority about what is normal in sex and relationships and I think its completely hypocritical of the producers to say 'All these things in society are just wrong and what we have to say is in fact right and we are the arbiters of normal'

The premises (at least so far in episode 1).

1) porn is distorting teenagers view of sex and relationships.

2) Products are sexualising young kids and big companies are 'pimping out kids'

3) A music channel showing sexually explicit lyrics and provocative videos.


Now... I entirely disagree on the porn front (a shocker I am sure) I don't think there is anything wrong with kids watching porn if they are interested. I know when I was a kid I first saw porn and if the technology was about when I was a kid I am sure I would have been non-stop sexting and downloading until my router exploded. Now you could argue that porn gives unrealistic expectations and this may be true however I would argue that soaps, movies and books have been giving people unrealistic expectations about love sex and relationships for years so if anything the situation we have now if more balanced and covers the whole spectrum of human interactions. Second point on that is that if you don't want your kids to see porn then I suggest you take some simple steps to prevent it, you know take parental responsibility.

On point 2, well I don't have a very strong opinion on this but really I think its the parents responsibility to just say no to their kids if they don't want them wearing thongs or padded bras or whatever. Seems like an individual parenting issue to me but there must be a lot of them out there to create the demand that these stores are fulfilling. Which kind of makes my point about these people being self declared arbiters of what's normal. Secondly, the provocative language the program use is to me more offensive than the kids clothes. Pimping? really? Selling kids into prostitution are they????

Point 3... well.... haha ha hahaha hahahahaa!

Didn't we have this debate 10 years ago? Same points apply again tho really. Parental responsibility etc etc.

Anybody got any views on this topic then?

[Lucio]

I'm sorry but I have to to disagree, the idea that porn is an acceptable baseline for human sexuality is just plain wrong. The problem isn't with the idea of pornography, but it's content. As anyone who actually watches porn will tell you, a lot of it is hard, aggressive and violent. A lot of the women are treated like objects to be used and abused, or in a small minority, the man is used and abused.

What there's far less of, is sensual or erotic pornography, where things develop at a slower pace, it doesn't have to be "softcore" and hide away the parts, but it does need to be gentler.

[roachcoach]

I watched these, mostly, I was gaming a lot at the same time. The music one was really bad - normally the show is relatively non-sensationalist but the slides of topless women in music videos were shocking. Not because it happens, but because it was blatant attention-whoring of no other worth - no mention of channel or time of broadcast. Disappointing. I half expected the adult channel to get abuse as inappropriate after that.

What started as a semi interesting topic quickly descended into nonsense, a lot of the valid points were lost amongst the utter rubbish. A little heel on a kids shoe...a sex object? Seriously? Maybe I just lack the foot fetish or something but how many times do you see little kids in their mums shoes?

As for the magazine thing...I noticed a massive LACK of focus on magazines with topless ripped men on the front, apparently its only bad if its a woman in a bikini....or some such self righteous crap...maybe only women can be "objectified".


I mainly came away from the thing as I went in, thinking to myself: If only kids had someone, maybe even a couple of people who...you know...live with them, teach them what is ok and not, have a bit of control of their lives until they are older. That's be just smashing.

Bit of a shame really, the earlier ones were actually relatively useful as far as these shows go.



With regard to porn, you get what you search for imo. (See rule #34 )

[G4Z]

I'm sorry but I have to to disagree, the idea that porn is an acceptable baseline for human sexuality is just plain wrong. The problem isn't with the idea of pornography, but it's content. As anyone who actually watches porn will tell you, a lot of it is hard, aggressive and violent. A lot of the women are treated like objects to be used and abused, or in a small minority, the man is used and abused.

What there's far less of, is sensual or erotic pornography, where things develop at a slower pace, it doesn't have to be "softcore" and hide away the parts, but it does need to be gentler.

Well this is strictly anecdotal but in my experience, women do tend to enjoy being dominated and I know my girlfriend watches quite a bit of porn. So I tend to think that in fact, women are just as filthy as men when it comes to this even though we as a society tend have this image of virginity and purity when it comes to women. I think a lot of women don't admit it because of the way our society is, but then you have to think, if society wasn't the way it was would women still be as enamoured with the idea of being 'naughty'? Either way, if you watch some of the stuff produced by women you will often find it can be just as hardcore and aggressive as the stuff done by men.

[format]

Well this is strictly anecdotal but in my experience, women do tend to enjoy being dominated and I know my girlfriend watches quite a bit of porn. So I tend to think that in fact, women are just as filthy as men when it comes to this even though we as a society tend have this image of virginity and purity when it comes to women. I think a lot of women don't admit it because of the way our society is, but then you have to think, if society wasn't the way it was would women still be as enamoured with the idea of being 'naughty'? Either way, if you watch some of the stuff produced by women you will often find it can be just as hardcore and aggressive as the stuff done by men.

Yes but the important thing is for people to find out what is good for themselves and for their partners. When a generation grows up thinking fisting a girl in her ass is the norm then there are going to be a lot of unhappy people out there.

[roachcoach]

When a generation grows up thinking fisting a girl in her ass is the norm then there are going to be a lot of unhappy people out there.

By "a generation" did you mean "politicians" and by "a girl" did you mean "the public"?

Because if you did, its too late.



Edit: I should perhaps make a more on topic reply so my question is this:

Whilst many find it* distasteful - surely the simple principles of supply and demand are in play here, momentarily setting aside the people who do it for fun.

Its not like its on the beeb at 1800, you need to look for it. I don't like really fat/old people porn, but damned sure fat people still have children and old people are still at it so there's a) clearly a demand and b) I don't like it so I don't look for it. I don't like celery either but I don't think its corrupting the food industry

*insert <kink of choice> here


Note some terms will sound derogatory, my apologies in advance, no offense intended, I'm not sure of the "formal" name of the subject in question.

[format]

I don't find it distasteful at all - I'm happy for anyone to do whatever pleases them in the bedroom. It's just that I don't think the humiliation of women portrayed as 'the norm' is a good thing for any young male (or female) mind.

[roachcoach]

That's my point around getting what you search for though - if it doesn't do anything for you, you won't look for it. If it does, chances are you already know/do it anyway. I don't think viewing different types of material "changes" anyone mentally, I think people are wired the way they are wired. Odds are if you're looking for stuff showing degradation (of either gender) then it is almost certain you're into it anyway.

Indeed, can there even be a "norm" for this sort of thing? Everyone is be different, at what point do things slide into "unusual" and around what would one draw the line? Positions? Toys? Behaviours? Participants? Then the varying degrees of those to name but a few.


Me, I don't think there is a "normal", just what works for the folks involved and if all parties are happy then that's the best way. There will undoubtedly be different volumes of people undertaking different activities but I don't think that makes them abnormal or others "normal", some things simply..."are" and this is one of them imo.


Edit: I thought of this a moment ago: To provide a better/stronger example of what I mean as I - to proclaim that viewing gay porn is liable to make people gay would be ridiculed and rightly so - this is the kind of parallel I'm thinking when I say people like what they like. If viewing gay porn isn't going to suddenly make someone gay, why would watching some S&M (for example) suddenly make them into that?

[TooNice]

I'm sorry but I have to to disagree, the idea that porn is an acceptable baseline for human sexuality is just plain wrong.

IMO, it doesn't even need to be treated as a baseline. As long as people understand that it's:

1. Fiction/fantasy (the act being real, but much of the reactions acted - kind of like threatening someone in a movie set - the action needs to be as real as can be, but they are just doing their job*).

2. In real life, you always have to keep consent in mind.

Then it doesn't really matter that some porn as violent and aggressive.

* Saying that, I can believe that some women may be coerced or manipulated into those jobs, similar to prostitution. But we will never know for sure, making the act gentler wouldn't solve this issue. All we can do is regulated the way they can cast.

[Blitzen]

A lot of the women are treated like objects to be used and abused

Fantastic isn't it

If people can't distinguish play-acting from real life, then they have more issues than the peson that watches the porn.

When a generation grows up thinking fisting a girl in her ass is the norm then there are going to be a lot of unhappy people out there

Cheers for bursting that bubble.........i am deeply unhappy now

[peterb]

If people can't distinguish play-acting from real life, then they have more issues than the peson that watches the porn.

Sadsly some people can't distinguish, do have real issues, and have been known to play them out in real life.

People ARE influenced by what they see portrayed in film etc - there is a successful advertising industry built on that premise.

[roachcoach]

Sadsly some people can't distinguish, do have real issues, and have been known to play them out in real life.

People ARE influenced by what they see portrayed in film etc - there is a successful advertising industry built on that premise.

It might make you try it, but it won't make you like it unless you already are that way inclined. Case in point, my earlier post about watching gay porn.

If anyone could be bothered, one could likely make a pretty strong case that it broadens peoples horizons by exposing them to things they may not have thought of, but actually it turns out they quite like it. Equally it could confirm that certain things do nothing for them.

Indeed advertising is successful, but only in getting a foot in the door and raising awareness - no matter how sexy and cool the next bounty commercial is, doesn't change the fact I dislike coconut and whilst I might have a brain-fart™ and try it, I still won't like it

[Raz316]

If people can't distinguish play-acting from real life, then they have more issues than the peson that watches the porn.

To follow on from this, personally I think the issue with porn and any other subjective source of entertainment is directly to do with people passing the buck and expecting someone else to be the source or to be the definition of 'good'. Actually, it's not just entertainment, it's everything, whether it's how to eat right or people expecting footballers to be role models.

I remember years ago seeing a mum complain to someone associated with eastenders because they showed an episode where two men kissed. She said she didn't want her kids seeing that, he said "well turn it off then".

I now realise I have gone completely off topic, but still, rargh!

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

directly to do with people passing the buck

What do you expect?? There are so many people in Blighty who have got them into silly amounts of debt for non-survival needs and then blame the banks for offering easy credit when they cannot pay!