Minimum holiday pay?

[Hicks12]

Just looking for a bit of advice (encase ive read things wrong etc) on what minimum holiday im entitled to at work, ive read on the gov website that its 5.6 weeks for part time.

Currently I work at a privately owned food outlet, its very poorly managed to say the least (incorrect pay sometimes, takes weeks to sort out and just in general they fail), I was working there in 2010 and got made redundant at the end of the year when they gave my job to their son (i dont think that was right but regardless!), started work again after they needed me to cover and have worked for 2 years now but over those 2 years ive had 4 weeks holiday each time, no one has got more than 4 weeks. My "manager" (loose term, she was given the role due to lack of the owners wanting to do anything but shes worked there for yonks over many business owners and is very down to earth!) would be able to sort this out easily I just dont want to mess her around so ideally need to know 100% that its not meant to be 4 weeks.

I have no contract with the company all I have is that i am getting a pay slip from them and am registered on their end to tax etc (i.e on the books). I have no real "contract" hours, initially i was there to fill in the saturday shift and cover any other days and for the last 3 months ive had to take on 3 days (all 6 hour shifts). They also have an odd system (atleast to me) when it comes to paying holiday, ive been told that they do it over a 12 or 18week period and give you an average of that so basically they dont give you 1 day holiday pay if you take one day holiday(would be one week, hours cut back now) youd get a average of your past working hours so for me it was more like 18 hours when i took one week off, not complaining in that specific scenario but it seems like a silly system and can screw you over if you take on more hours and then take holiday a month in or so.

Just taking it from my one day (6 hours) shift I would apparently be entitled to 5.6 worth of days which is 33.6 hours, I dont get this though as i only get 24 normally, the only exception was while i covered the previous 3 months it meant that i got more.

Am i just being stupid or are we meant to get 5.6 weeks worth? It is just so poorly run that its things like this they dont get right and its up to us employees to tell them what they are doing wrong, for example they dont even know the minimum wage... they asked us for them and even then kept paying us wrong, i could manage their books better!.

Sorry for the long post, just curious if i should be sorting this out. Any insight is appreciated

edit: Think i understand the 18 week thing now, as the gov website says your "usual working week" so i guess the fact we have no proper contract hours and overtime can come and go that this is just a system that helps cover it.

[Unique]

firstly you have a contract of employment, the contract is binding as you agreed to it by starting work. you have the right to a written copy of the terms and conditions of your employment, you can put a request for this in writing and they have 21 days to supply you with this

statutory holiday entitlement for all staff in the UK is 5.6 weeks per year pro rata. for staff who have no fixed hours, payment for these holidays should be based on the average earnings over the previous 13 weeks prior to taking holidays

whilst stat entitlement is 5.6 weeks, it's up to staff to request and take that time off. this is best done in writing so there is a written copy. employers must ensure staff use at least 4 weeks of the holiday. no payment can be made for unused statutory holiday entitlement unless the employess contract is terminated

as you have 2 years continous service it's not so easy for them to terminate your employment, but with no agreed fixed hours they could potentially reduce these if they were unhappy with a complaint

i suggest you speak to ACAS about this and then use their advice to speak to your employer

[billythewiz]

I just dont want to mess her around so ideally need to know 100% that its not meant to be 4 weeks.

The 5.6 weeks is basically 4 weeks + 1.6 weeks of Bank Holidays (20 days + 8 days of bank holidays). The legislation used to say 20 days and some employers (mostly American) tried to include the BHs in that, but the previous government clarified the situation.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ys/DG_10029788

There is a minimum right to paid holiday, but your employer may offer more than this. The main things you should know about holiday rights are that:

you are entitled to a minimum of 5.6 weeks paid annual leave - 28 days for someone working five days a week (capped at a statutory maximum of 28 days for all working patterns)

part-time workers are entitled to the same level of holiday pro rata (so 5.6 times your usual working week, eg 22.4 days for someone working four days a week)

you start building up holiday as soon as you start work

your employer can control when you take your holiday

you get paid your normal pay for your holiday

when you finish a job, you get paid for any holiday you have not taken

bank and public holidays can be included in your minimum entitlement

you continue to be entitled to your holiday leave throughout your ordinary and additional maternity leave and paternity and adoption leave

[jackobyte]

the line on work contracts
Yes you do have a contract when you start work it may be only a verbal contract with set terms and conditions their employment rights, responsibilities and duties. These are called the ‘terms' of the contract.
but once you have worked there for a at least 2 months you can request a written contract (as said above).
A casual contract is also available
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/index.htm

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan...ts_at_work.htm

General types of contract
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ns/DG_10027905

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...nt/DG_10027916

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ment/DG_183998

and some re holidays
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...days/index.htm

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ys/DG_10034711

How holiday pay is calculated
You are entitled to be paid during your statutory annual leave and contractual annual leave. Your holiday pay will be your normal weekly wage (excluding non-guaranteed overtime). If your pay varies from week to week, your holiday pay should be your average weekly wage over the previous 12 weeks.

Also you have to establish if your business shuts on bank holidays or not.
If not and it remains open and you happen to be on day
off at that time ,you are entitled to claim that day back,but this generally would be a mon-fri shift pattern so may not apply in your situation.
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...mId=1074414966

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...3858926&r.s=sc

Calculation help and info on holidays
http://online.businesslink.gov.uk/bd...L&type=BLTTOOL

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ys/DG_10034642

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...ays/index.html

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...faq/index.html

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1360

hope some of these help.
Remember there is helplines on these .gov web sites you can also call for assistance on info and on the Acas web site also,where you can talk to a person on the phone if that would help and it can be anonymous

[Unique]

The 5.6 weeks is basically 4 weeks + 1.6 weeks of Bank Holidays (20 days + 8 days of bank holidays). The legislation used to say 20 days and some employers (mostly American) tried to include the BHs in that, but the previous government clarified the situation.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ys/DG_10029788

holidays were never listed in days, always in weeks. it increased from 4 weeks pro rata to the current 5.6 weeks pro rata

bank/public (or whatever you want to call them) holidays are not statutory holidays. the only statutory holidays were the x number of weeks. there's been nothing official to state how the entitlement was made up. i'm not sure where you got the 1.6 weeks part from

it's never been mentioned in days as of course the number of days entitlement will vary depending on the number of days someone works. not everyone works a 5 day week. it's not even clear if the OP works that as they mentioned working part time and variable hours

prior to the 4 weeks entitlement there was no statutory entitlement to any paid holidays. i knew a stingy employer who only 2 weeks paid holiday per year, but closed for 4 weeks out of the year. staff were asked to work extra hours to bank to save up to be paid for the other two weeks if they wanted paid

[Hicks12]

Thanks for all the replies! I read some before work and asked my manager, she said that the boss was already approached about this and basically said stick with the 4 weeks holiday or lose your job...

Its nice to know it is 5.6 weeks, its just a shame that im not in a position to challenge this, ive been looking for an alternative job for over a year just to cover my studies, cant get a job anywhere so dont really want to lose my job over 1.6weeks worth of pay a year! Even worse is that if i did do it then id probably make it worse for all the employees, its a very private business and all the employees are good friends and we know that the owner isnt in the strongest position that he has been (bought another shop further away, made a loss on the business and sold up... only our shop is making a good profit ).


Sorry Unique, i blabbered on a bit in the OP so must of missed this bit, I work 1 day a week (6 hours) however i was taking 2 other days due to staff leaving and I was to take those days indefinitely(back to 1 now as the owner family have moved from the other store back to here to work...).

We close for new years day and christmas day, believe that is it and we are open 7 days a week.