Clinton cards was caused to enter administration by "loan to own"

[aidanjt]

Uh hu. It's the evil bankers fault now because they pushed, lobbied and bribed to create chaos?

Yes, they did. They pursued deregulations which would have kept them in check, they then made the stupid, irrational and greedy bets. And then they intentionally scrunched them into a ball and tossed them back and forth and made them snowball. They created the conditions for economic turmoil.

There are two very easy to read books, "The Tiger That Isn't" and "The undercover economist".

Care to cite something actually public domain? Moreover, something remotely relevant to what I said.

Please read something about statistics and how maths is wrongly portraid almost always in the media

I care nothing for media math. That is an assumption which is irrelevant to what I said.

and something about how the theories of economics work. Then maybe something like "The black swan" to see how they don't work.

Nice vague hand-waving, there.

You talk about bankers as if they all hold the same view, they don't, thats the point. If they did, nothing would happen.

Nowhere did I say all bankers are the same. But the top bankers with excessive influence clearly have the same vested interests in the current mess.

Once again your talking completely and demonstratably out of ignorance

Oh really, Supreme Lord Authority TheAnimus? Then what did cause all the chaos? Are we going to blame the great unwashed again? Even though they didn't set up the defective system... Even though they don't regulate (or retard, or fail to regulate) the defective system... Please, do enlighten us to the exact cause. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assert that a system failure is a failure of the system and those who developed/regulated it are responsible. Usually when systems explode in my face, I tend to blame the manufacturer who made it instead of the consumers who buys it.

But your right, it's everyone else to blame. I totally buy that, I'm convinced, really.. yeah.

have jumped to a standard response of "oh the evil coperations and washington".

Personal attacks and waffle which doesn't address what I said are a pathetic defence against anything, much less charges of fascism.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Nvm.

[HalloweenJack]

That is what people thought until the collapse of LB and BS.

Sadly, nothing has been done to stop this problem of a bank being too large to fail.

http://nymag.com/news/businessfinance/bottomline/58991/

gosh i havent read such an aweful article in a long time - lets blame the governments for this mess and not the banks.... its nearly as bad as the mail....

edit: you have banks threatening governments - but then again in the USA you had the sugar industry threaten (sorry lobby) the health department , which then directly threatened the WHO into not publishing a report about fructose and how the USA have engineered `being fat` into food for 30 years.....

[Spud1]

@aidanjt (too many quotes there)…

I apologise if this is untrue, and you have actually got some firm evidence or at least published writing to support your claims outside of all the crap the media put out, but you do sound like you have fallen hook line and sinker for "the banks and their bankers caused all of the financial chaos that has ensued over the past few years". That is, of course, total rubbish.

A selection of bankers (largely *investment* bankers) have made some pretty big mistakes, this is clear. We know the way that bad debt was packaged up and sold on, and what spiralled out from this...but again you seem to be completely ignoring where that bad debt came from.

As I said *WE* are to blame one way or another - yes the banks were involved in selling us those dodgy loans etc, but even then its actually IFAs who were the main culprits, rather than the banks themselves.

I do totally understand the mindset of it all being the producers fault, but it's supply and demand in this market - we wanted the loans and we didn't want to pay the going rate for them. So the banks gave us what we wanted packaged up in a way that seemed like we could afford it (and we could at the time). The fact that it wasn't sustainable is our own fault.

I apply the same argument to drugs - yes it's the cartels that make and supply the product, but people who die from drugs do it to themselves, contrary to popular belief the vast majority of drug addicts are addicts purely by choice (up until a given point) - it's not normal for a drug dealer to "push" drugs on people and make them take them..quite the opposite.

The thing is, as with drugs, it's very very hard to go after the whole population or every single person involved - it's much easier and more sensible from a control point of view to go after the big targets - less of them, easier to hit, and taking them out/fixing their problems will have the end result of "saving" the majority.

I guess what I am getting at is that it really annoys me when I hear people going on about how it's all the bankers fault, whilst taking no responsibility themselves. We all got ourselves in to this mess (the bankers too!) and we will only get out of it by sharing the pain together.

[blueball]

blah blah blah

Utter twaddle