The best thing you can do today is...

[Knoxville]

someone they respect, parents, friends, role models.

not corey from slipknot!

[Galant]

You sure?

For many, their favourite singers/groups etc. are their role models.

I think it's even the case that with some (a decent number) they hold more respect for those favourites!

Music, popular culture and the media hold an ever-increasing influence of how people behave, who they are and will become. I'm not saying there aren't other influences.

But why do these individuals and groups write what they write? For a joke?

Or am I wrong about all this?

I agree parents have a big influence. But, do people dress and speak like their parents? Do you see copies of them everywhere?

[Knoxville]

i'd say kids think these people are cool, but respect? i can't say as i respect alot of them, i might think the way they dress is cool, or they're music, but it doesn't mean i respect em more than my friends and family.

[ACiD303]

Music, popular culture and the media hold an ever-increasing influence of how people behave, who they are and will become. I'm not saying there aren't other influences.

I agree, and alot of people let their lives be governed by this. I said that in a down-looking sort of way, I didnt mean it like that, but personally I dont see the point.

and I dont see the point in Celebrity hubba bubba - MTV European Music Awards came to me town a few weeks ago and all of sudden, traffic jams everywhere coz people are blocking the roads trying to get a sight of someone famous, or even get a photo/autograph - do you even know that person or do you think they give a hoot about you (other to see their film or buy their music??) - I can give respect where its due for certain celebrities, but even then I cant get worked up about it.

After typing in various stuff I listen to, I finally found a review on Rage Against the Machine - Battle against LA:

"The political causes aren't always clear, but the band's anger is unmistakable. At the church. At the rich. At governments. And settling things peacefully isn't an option. Rage Against the Machine preaches anarchy and violence, believing they can somehow solve the world's problems by throwing gasoline on the fire. Keep teens away from the self-righteous rioting in The Battle of Los Angeles."

Oh come now, RATM angry? Surely not? I mean, look at our world, what in your own gods given name makes you think there's anything to be angry about? Thank you, you've pointed it out yourself

[Galant]

Interesting way to make a point.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that anarchy, violence and rioting are good and valid ways to respond to problems in the world/society?

The quote you included doesn't deny the problems, nor the need for an answer, it simply says that RATM's response isn't a good one.

As for influencing people, it seems from your response that you've been sold on their idea. I expect that the reason many people don't go as far as the ideas suggest is because their comfortable enough in their lives right now, they don't need or want to kick p a fuss. But, if strong discontent came, I wonder...?

[ACiD303]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that anarchy, violence and rioting are good and valid ways to respond to problems in the world/society?

Ive certainly inferred that without knowing, but in a way, I guess I dont object to the acts above - and here's the hypocritical/self-conflicting part - as long as no one's hurt I dont/wouldnt take part in them myself, but I do not condone their actions if I can agree with even partial what they believe in - in such situations, its more extremists that will take defying action and Im not an extremist.

As for influencing people, it seems from your response that you've been sold on their idea.

I dont live my life by their political beliefs (some are a bit extreme) or by actions inferred. I simply admire the way they get their message across (putting on a gig to make Wall Street close down early, I reckon that takes balls), and to increase awareness of certain issues that go on in the world - whether or not other people think it's good or not. Yeah I like the music, and yes I am angry about a shedload in the world, but I dont feel the need to go marching and burn flags and smash windows of globalised stores. (and Im not comfortable at all in my life).

[Galant]

Ah, but that's the message they're sending, and that's the thing that the site is critical of. You might not consider yourself an extremist, or someone who would take the message too far, but that doesn't validate the message, nor does it mean there are those who wouldn't.

I pose again the question...what makes us who we are?

We are, to an extent, products of that which we take in. The people on the site recognise that, and they argue that someone should be careful to not take in that which is corrupting or harmful. Even potentially so.

What are they doing that really offends, what are they costing you?

[Knoxville]

my right to decide, i reserve the right to decide what is and what isn't appropriate for me and in the future my kids, i don't wanna be told about it by a website full of people with they're heads stuck up they're asses tbh

[malfunction]

Originally posted by Galant
I pose again the question...what makes us who we are?

We are, to an extent, products of that which we take in. The people on the site recognise that, and they argue that someone should be careful to not take in that which is corrupting or harmful. Even potentially so.

Yeah - but it's only art isn't it. I understand what you're getting at - the whole nature / nuture argument - but I believe that if you're that easily led / that detached from reality then something, somewhere will 'lead you astray' anyway.

[malfunction]

Also - a few things that may make you question the value of the site - from the review of Bend It Like Beckham:

Jess' family pray to what appears to be an Indian diety and revere a large portrait prominently displayed in their living room.

Which set alarms bells ringing - did they pay any attention to the film? No checking facts or even listening to the dialogue... So I think that seems like propaganda - pretending Christianity is the only valid spiritual path.

And then this:

Beckham's most positive theme (finding one's niche and pursuing goals with gusto) introduces its highest hurdle: homosexuality.

And this:

But Bend It Like Beckham's embrace of homosexual ideals—particularly as they apply to teens—should make families wary.

And then this rant at the end of the review for In & Out:

This is also a growing problem within the church. The youth mail received at Focus on the Family indicates that more and more Christian teens are embracing gay ideology, excusing homosexuality among their peers and even practicing it themselves. Parents and youth leaders must lovingly set teens straight. Point out God's views on homosexuality (Lev. 18:22, 20:13, Rom 1:24-27). Discuss "love" from a biblical perspective. If necessary, seek Christian counseling. It's essential that teens recognize the devastating social and personal consequences of the gay lifestyle.

When Ellen DeGeneres accepted her Emmy Award on September 14, the lesbian comedienne told gay teens, "There's nothing wrong with you. Don't ever let anybody make you feel ashamed of who you are." If godly adults don't intervene, children will be left to heed these voices of popular culture.

Outright bigotry! And more religous propaganda - from the review of Ali:

Discuss how in Ali's life, the strict legalism of Islam (particularly that practiced by the Nation of Islam) did not have the power to transform him and led to the casual dismissal of his first wife because she wouldn't dress a certain way—a good contrast to the grace and true spiritual power offered by Christ.

So Galant - do you support them?

[Galant]

Okay, first things first.

Regarding my, what makes us what we are question, I still leave it with you. It can be said that some people are more easily lead than others, but then, what makes you who you are? Where do you get your opinions, or better yet, why do you dress the way you do? Why is it that you think some things are cool, or others aren't? Why do you find somethings are enjoyable, and others things you wouldn't be caught dead doing? Compare yourself to others. Now, in all honesty, are you influenced by anything, and what are you influenced by? Do you choose what to be influenced by?

Now, as to whether I support them or not, I can't say that I do. I have not been to the site, I've formed my points purely from what has been posted here. I try to think about things from as many points of view that I can, and then try to come to a conclusion as to which are valid, which are not, and what is preferable.

I'm well aware of the idea that there are many spiritual paths etc, but what makes the idea that there is only one two path any more offensive than that which says there are many? It's really a very simple idea which is based on the idea that if you declare somethings to be true, then that logically and necessarily excludes some others things from being true.

Or is it that you believe it possible for anything and everything to be true regardless?

They believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation - so what? Nothing new there, and I think it makes more sense to say something like that than to say that all or many religions which disagree fundamentally are all telling the truth.

??

And as for their views on homosexuality, you call it bigotry. Just for the sake of this discussion, I'd like to define what we mean by that term. So if you could post a simple definition I'd appreciate it - just so we're talking about the same thing.

The Christians on that site place limits on what they believe is good/beneficial/proper sexuality. Simply put, they decide to call some forms/expressions of sexuality good, and others bad.

The good expression I expect would be sex between a male and a female in a marriage relationship. They would see it as a necessary part of the marriage relationship, and the ultimate expression of unity between the two. The pinnacle of what God intended for human relationships.

Bad expressions would include pre-marital and extra-marital sex, incest, paedophilia, necrophilia, bestiality, polygamy, and as you've brought up, homosexuality.

Now, whilst it may seem clear to many that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality, you must at least understand that the argument for homosexuality flies against thousands of years of human society, and they would also make an argument based upon the 'nature' of the sexuality. Whether or not it is natural and the effects of such a relationship.

Overall, I do not know these people, and I do know that there are a lot of overly harsh 'Christians' and bigots. Of the bigots and 'extremists' I would say that they may be people who take the name of Christian but do not live the life or know God. As such it is tough to deal with but ultimately neither Christianity nor God can be judged by them. They may be well meaning yet misguided people, not thinking things through, and taking a stupid attitude. I cannot defend the actions, words or beliefs of every person who claims the name of Christ. Nor would I want to, there are many fakes and abusers in this world.

I do know that there are Christians who whilst believing homosexuality to be wrong, and a perversion (literally 'twisting') or what is normal and best, still only seek the best for all human beings, who seek to treat them with love and compassion. For every person suffers in some way, everyone has been hurt, every person has problems and things that need correcting. They would just as soon condemn a deceiving or abusing lifestyle as a homosexual one. They believe that there is better way to live life, one that brings greater peace, security, contentment and joy. And those who stand true are those who are not aggressive or insulting, yet compassionate desiring the best for people. It has been said that God loves you just the way you are, but He also loves you too much to leave you that way.

I know that might sound insulting or offensive, but no-one is saying they are perfect (if they are, they're wrong and need correcting), they are in fact saying that they, and other are imperfect, and that there is a way to get past problems and trials and addictions. To be free and happy.

Okay, I've said enough for this post. Hope I got my point across.

[malfunction]

I'll try and address your points here though I'm trying to avoid getting into a purely philosophical debate as to what makes us who we are - all I'll say is I believe it's a mix of nature and nuture - I believe we are naturally - genetically - desposed to certain behaviours but that just becuase it's 'in your character' your don't have to act on it - and that your awareness of the social norms, your own knowledge and experience can govern your actions - can change your character - despite of any 'natural' reaction. (If you want to discuss this in particular any further then please start a new thread - I'll be happy to join in)

Basically my original point was that anyone who is overly influenced by lyrics, violence in the media, etc would probably never be a 'well-rounded' person and those that take extreme actions and blame art / the media for their actions or the actions of others are at best looking for an excuse and at worse playing politics... That this 'secondary censorship' - based upon the recommendations of the site - isn't much more than scare mongering and propaganda on their part.

As for the bigotry portrayed by that site I mean that the people behind that site are bigots in the literal sense - that I simply think their views are wrong - and against what I perceive to be the accepted norms - that they are either literally blind to any views and lifestyles other than their own or have their own political reasons for publicly presenting that image. I suspect in this case that it is both - to answer your points in order (religious / spiritual paths and then sexuality):

The references to other religous beliefs seem highly disdainful to me - of little or no tolerance which - in my admitedly limited knowledged of the new testament is just not 'the point'... They do of course have the right to believe and express that their way is the true way but their statements about Bend It Like Beckham and Ali are basically propaganda - they might as well throw "infidel" in there - in particular "some Indian deity" nearly made me laugh - from my sketchy memory of the film and 30 seconds with google I'm pretty sure it's a picture of Guru Nanak and that the family were Sikhs. If i was actually publishing a comment in relation to it I'd make sure I knew what I talking about - and I'm sure they'd take objection to Jesus being described as "some American deity".

My personal view of a person's sexuality is basically "whatever floats your boat" - if you aren't hurting anyone and everyone involved is happy then it's your own personal business - there are things I know of that I instinctively know aren't for me and there are some things that I find downright ridiculous but if you aren't hurting anyone then what does it matter? That's where I draw the line and so I'd say that incest, paedophilia, necrophilia, and bestiality are basically 110% wrong, that extra-marital sex is definitely wrong (it still causes pain after all) though in no way to the same way as incest, etc and that pre-marital sex and polygamy are a choice - albeit choices very much dictated by your culture and your sense of the social norm. I don't believe that homo / hetero sexuality is a choice but is a part of the natural variation - and I find it dissappointing that people believe otherwise - for me - and I hope for most people - it's like calling a particular hair colour wrong.

As for your final point - and the only one that I have issue with you about - homosexuality goes against 1000s of years of society? Which society are we talking about here? I'll admit that I don't know much about it but I am aware that in other times and societies (in Roman times for example) homosexuality was not seen as a problem but simply as a 'preference' - and that now the mainstream view is adjusting back towards that point... (I know that there are much more modern references but I can't quote one) I feel like you're saying the equivalent of "racism is understandable as we've had years of slavery, etc" - it's still wrong and there's still no good reason to show sympathy towards it.

[ACiD303]

Regarding my, what makes us what we are question, I still leave it with you. It can be said that some people are more easily lead than others, but then, what makes you who you are? Where do you get your opinions, or better yet, why do you dress the way you do? Why is it that you think some things are cool, or others aren't? Why do you find somethings are enjoyable, and others things you wouldn't be caught dead doing? Compare yourself to others. Now, in all honesty, are you influenced by anything, and what are you influenced by? Do you choose what to be influenced by?

It is a good question - only which the people who know themselves can answer truly. Im still not sure who I am, and Im trying to figure this out. Though I think "where do you get your opinions is a bit vague. Your opinions are other people's opinions in a agree/disagree form. You read something, you can be in horror or total agreement. You hear something, the same. Your opinion are always there, they just need to be uncovered. All I can think of is that my peers / mates have influenced me most. But I have always had my own opinions and I will do what I want regardless of what others may think of me - and I dont want anyone to think that following someone just for the sake of it is a good idea - you make your own informed decisions and only then can you be true to what you do and think.

I'm well aware of the idea that there are many spiritual paths etc, but what makes the idea that there is only one two path any more offensive than that which says there are many? It's really a very simple idea which is based on the idea that if you declare somethings to be true, then that logically and necessarily excludes some others things from being true.

Thats about being open-minded. And (hope this isnt a bringing in a new argument) if I were to be honest, men are almost incapable of being truly open-minded (this is a subjective feeling tho with what Ive encountered personally). In general, women are most open-minded about stuff (except when it comes to who they're going out with) and being reasonable with argumentative issues. They manage to see both sides of the argument whereas us men do not see such a big a picture. Ive not met everyone but this is just what my life experience has taught me.

Hope I got my point across.

Fair play to you mate, you make a good argument even though I dont agree with you 100%, you make some good points.

[DaBeeeenster]

Talking about S Club 7: "Families should use discretion."

Yeah, they, er, will rot your mind and stuff.

[Jimmy Little]

Guys like I said before… this is a Christian web site for Christian parents, I don’t know what all the fuss is about… some things on the site I agree with.. and some I don’t like S Club 7 for example… although I can’t stand them, I would have no probs with anyone else listening to them, but I do find some stuff hidden in certain music to be worrying, and if you guys studied the bible you would probably see why certain Christians would indeed want to protect there children from things…

And if you don’t study the bible or believe in Christianity…. then why read and slag off the web site? Far easier to condemn something you don’t understand than to put the effort in to have a clear view point on the subject I think..

[Moby-Dick]

I dont think they are "slagging off" the site. Comments are made on the views being a little extreeme, and the reviewer looking for points that are not ( imho) really there.

I've studied the bible before and found it to be one of the most sefl contradicting books ever. You can find a verse to prove any point you want ( often from both sides of the arguement )

I'd like to think that the majority of Christians have a slightly more open minded view of the world than that site would have you believe , especially in regards to other religions. Fundamentalism never did anyone any good