When did Rape and jumping Bail become OK?

[DeludedGuy]

Lets say Assange decided to return to Sweden for a trial, I can not see how it would ever be a fair trial because of who he is and how much publicity this case has received.

[Saracen]

The facts of the case haven't had much publicity, but the logic of your stance is that anyone with a high profile that gets some publicity can get away with anything, because they can't get a fair trial.

[HalloweenJack]

Its simple as to why


Anna Ardin works for a group funded by the CIA and run by CIA op Carlos Alberto Montaner;

all of which he denies but the info is out there if you know where to look. Dont usually post in tin foil hat threads , but julian assange has good grounds to fear he will be renditioned for torture in the USA.

[TheAnimus]

Nope. Sweden's extradition treaty with the US is entirely arbitrary.

Do you have a link for that? Because it contradicts what the Lawyer in the arctile says, and a few other apparently respected ones too (thou I don't know of them at all).

However the author of the article is a man I do have time and respect for.

[TheAnimus]

Sweden had a rather...colourful...past with extraordinary rendition.

They say it is better/stopped now though. Personally if I was in Assange's shoes, I'd take that with a pinch small dumper truck load of salt.

I Agree, but I CERTAINLY wouldn't have fled to Britain. I mean, we're at least up there with Sweden, and I would say ahead in terms of co-operation with the USA on such things.

The costing side of things, well he has pissed off people, jumping bail in a high profile case is going to net a high profile response.

[DeludedGuy]

The facts of the case haven't had much publicity, but the logic of your stance is that anyone with a high profile that gets some publicity can get away with anything, because they can't get a fair trial.

Certain facts of the case have had plenty of publicity, like the fact one of the victims consented to have sex once, but didn't consent to having sex again a few hours later whilst she was asleep. Whether that is rape or not is down to the jury who will go into the trial with preconceived thoughts.

I am not saying he is innocent or is right to skip bail, I just dislike the fact that he will not have a fair trial, which just gives him another card to play with.

Other facts include false "evidence", like the torn condom he apparently used on Anna Ardin that contained no traces of his DNA... its all a bit much really.

[aidanjt]

Do you have a link for that?

Sure thing: http://internationalextraditionblog....dition-treaty/
Page also includes links to the treaty and its supplement themselves so you can see what he's talking about.

[TheAnimus]

Nope. Sweden's extradition treaty with the US is entirely arbitrary.

Sure thing: http://internationalextraditionblog....dition-treaty/
Page also includes links to the treaty and its supplement themselves so you can see what he's talking about.

It's interesting your getting a thanks for that citation, as it does not help your point. It in fact helps mine.

The treaty supplement Article II (in english hah!)

(1) An offense shall be an extraditable offense only if it is punishable under the laws of both Contracting States by deprivation of liberty for a period of at least two years. However, when the request for extradition relates to a person who has been convicted and sentenced, extradition shall be granted only if the duration of the penalty, or the aggregate of the penalties still to be served amounts to at least six months.

So, once again, it has to be a violation of the law in both countries.

In the video he is referring to Article VI b. Guess what? We've got the same in the UK!

So, I hope we can all agree on, what the original article mentioned, that to be extradited from Sweden, he has to be found to be breaking a law in both Sweden and the USA.

There is a lot of FUD coming round from the Assange camp, including that he was not found to be accused of breaking of any sex offence by UK law, this is completely untrue. Anyone can see that based on the court documents and the judges summing up.

Which brings me back to.

1) There is no greater threat about been in Sweden than the UK, if anything it is suggested the UK is worse.
2) He fled rape allegations from Sweden.
3) He asked for impossible/illegal guarantees from Sweden.
4) He often makes it sound as if he is wanted for questioning, this is not the case by UK ideas of questioning.
5) He would probably get trail within a week of been back in Sweden.

[peterb]

@theanimus

You forgot to mention that there is no warrant for his arrest in the USA, and as far as is known, the US Federal Government has not approached Sweden for an extradition warrant.

[melon]

It's interesting your getting a thanks for that citation, as it does not help your point. It in fact helps mine.

The treaty supplement Article II (in english hah!)

I can remove it if it offends you, would you like that ?


m

[TheAnimus]

It just makes me worry. Basically if we have any form of democracy, and people are so lazy that they don't even click on something, before saying "oh yeah, that must be true then".

The reason I find this a problem is people don't come from a factual nueturalist point of view, they have an agenda that they wish to push.

By using a forum voting system, we re-enforce this nonsense.

I find it amazing that all of a sudden no one gives a damn about rape.

[melon]

It just makes me worry. Basically if we have any form of democracy, and people are so lazy that they don't even click on something, before saying "oh yeah, that must be true then".

The reason I find this a problem is people don't come from a factual nueturalist point of view, they have an agenda that they wish to push.

By using a forum voting system, we re-enforce this nonsense.

I find it amazing that all of a sudden no one gives a damn about rape.

Well, I guess its just up to you then to save us..

m

[DeludedGuy]

I find it amazing that all of a sudden no one gives a damn about rape.

You are implying a rape took place, we don't know yet if it actually did, the title of this thread is misleading as it suggests Assange is guilty of rape, which he isn't, admittedly as the court case hasn't taken place yet, but that doesn't mean you can accuse him of committing rape.

[GeorgeStorm]

You are implying a rape took place, we don't know yet if it actually did, the title of this thread is misleading as it suggests Assange is guilty of rape, which he isn't, admittedly as the court case hasn't taken place yet, but that doesn't mean you can accuse him of committing rape.

Just wanted to comment on the last bit, ofcourse he can accuse him?
Even if there was no evidence at all he could still accuse him if he wanted to?

In this case he's probably read stuff about it and then based on the facts (well, supposed facts atleast) he thinks he did commit it.

[TheAnimus]

You are implying a rape took place, we don't know yet if it actually did, the title of this thread is misleading as it suggests Assange is guilty of rape, which he isn't, admittedly as the court case hasn't taken place yet, but that doesn't mean you can accuse him of committing rape.

I am saying someone has made allegations , which are enough to persuade the Swedish and English legal systems there is something to be answered for.

The confusion of a lot of people is this whole "he hasn't even been charged" well in Swedish law, its a bit differen't, 'translated' in to UK law as far as procedures go, he has been charged.

He has now skipped bail, he won't have to go to court over the rape case.

I see no reason, despite looking, why this is to avoid the USA.

I can not understand why even just the two separate allegations of rape are not considered by you, to be worthy of note.

Please, feel free to go through the articles, the laws and tell me I'm mistaken, but as it stands all of the stuff been spouted by his legal team and certain press dosen't add up!

[TheAnimus]

In this case he's probably read stuff about it and then based on the facts (well, supposed facts atleast) he thinks he did commit it.

I'm not saying that, I am saying due process should be carried out, he should go to court.

The argument he is avoiding Sweden because of the wikileaks thing appears baseless.