Council Tax Robbery

[Andeh13]

I am moving out my my property due to redundancy and finding a job too far away for me to continue living there.

I have moved out currently (but not my furiture), and am staying in a hotel until my new rented place is ready for me (1st January). I just rang the council to inform them the house will now be vacant and from January 1st I no longer need to pay council tax, ie because by then furniture will be more or less moved out and I will never again be spending a night out the house whilst I wait for it to sell.

They informed me that all they offer is a 10% discount for vacant properties/''holiday homes''. After explaining to them that the house is a) for sale and b) empty and c) cut off from services (gas water etc) all they could say was... ''that's why we offer you a 10% discount''. Desbite the gas, water, elec all cancelled they still require me to pay £130 a month for the flipping property!

So desbite me not using the roads, schools, police, refuse collection, tip, voting, parks, ammenties and services they still expect me to pay 90% of the going rate?

And best of all, they need to book an hour long slot for an inspector to come out to check my property is fully vacant before they will offer me a 10% discount. Includes inspecting cuboards, cellars and lofts to ensure the house is totally empty. All for a total saving for them of £150ish a year off of the £1300+ I pay them a year.

How is that in any way an efficient use of their time!!?? It took the police 4 days to come out to a reported buglery in the area...the same amount of time it would take me to book an inspection for my empty property!

[Willzzz]

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/secon...pty-properties

"There’s no Council Tax to pay on empty and unfurnished homes for up to 6 months."

[scaryjim]

As Willzzz rightly says, for the first six months the property should be exempt. Ring them up, and tell them that you want a class C exemption from 1st January. See how fast they jump when they find out you know which class of exemption you're entitled to

After those 6 months are up, I'm afraid you're stuffed. It falls back onto the normal empty discount, and in around 2003 an amendment was passed that allows the council, at its own discretion, to offer as low as a 10% discount. Guess how many councils offer a larger discount than that? It used to be a flat 50% discount, but rural councils where the majority of properties were second homes complained bitterly. Sadly, I've yet to see a council that uses the discretion properly...

Oh, and they shouldn't need to inspect - I've never heard of a council wanting to, tbh - unless they have genuine reason to believe the property isn't empty. Sounds like a sucky council to me: I'd be glad to be moving away from them personally!

EDIT: incidentally, I'm afraid that also means you only get a 10% discount from now until 1st January. But claim it anyway, every little helps

[TheAnimus]

Basically, this is just standard pratice paperpushing.

The same reason they have issued a warrent for my congestion charge excempt car for, you guessed it, going in the congestion charge. Despite telling me they had fixed this, I have a shiny letter from a balif.

It would have been a LOT cheaper for me to just pay the fine, and not ackolwedge their error.

[Willzzz]

Yeah they should take your word for it and do you for fraud if you turn out to be lying. Also you should be able to get it back-dated.

[Andeh13]

Thank you guys. I can make the house unfurnished with some effort, and it is for sale currently so 6 months will hopefully be enough time for me to make ammends!

I will await a call from their council tax inspector and see what he says, will also have a chat with him about the links above. Will wait and see what they say first though, as she was adament that all i was entitled to was a 10% discount!

[jim]

It falls back onto the normal empty discount, and in around 2003 an amendment was passed that allows the council, at its own discretion, to offer as low as a 10% discount.

Since you get a 25% discount for living alone (IIRC), doesn't that mean that it's cheaper to "live" alone in an empty house than to properly declare it as empty?

[Willzzz]

Thank you guys. I can make the house unfurnished with some effort, and it is for sale currently so 6 months will hopefully be enough time for me to make ammends!

I will await a call from their council tax inspector and see what he says, will also have a chat with him about the links above. Will wait and see what they say first though, as she was adament that all i was entitled to was a 10% discount!

Well she is correct, if it is still furnished.

Yeah that's kinda weird that you would pay less if you are living there alone than if the house was empty.
Still I guess councils don't want to encourage houses being left empty, it isn't good for the local community, particularly in rural areas.

[Smudger]

I think she's classing your old place as a 2nd home, incorrectly. Here's a link which may help...

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan...ouncil_tax.htm

[DeludedGuy]

Thank all of you for bringing this to my attention, was not aware of this even though I am just entering a similar situation, what a coincidence! Love this place.

[Andeh13]

Yeah, even when I requested her a least change it to single occupancy as no one is living there currently she still explained that a council tax officer would have to make the decision and get back to me.

The bureaucracy and red tape that this is involving is frustrating and worrying in equal measures. An inspection, a council tax officer and council employee all have to be involved for me to prove I have moved out. Surely a final gas/water/leccy bill and proof of new contract elsewhere scanned and emailed to them would confirm the property is now empty as far as I am concerned and the job would be complete?

[scaryjim]

Since you get a 25% discount for living alone (IIRC), doesn't that mean that it's cheaper to "live" alone in an empty house than to properly declare it as empty?

Yes, but you'd also be lying and deliberately misrepresenting your position for taxation purposes, and CT is considered as much a tax as any other. If you knowingly avoid CT then you can be prosecuted, fined, and ultimately jailed if you don't pay up.

... Yeah that's kinda weird that you would pay less if you are living there alone than if the house was empty. ...

It's beyond ridiculous, especially as I was working in a revenues department (although on the benefits side) when the change came in, and therefore understand the rhetoric behind it. It's a discretion that was intended to provide relief for councils in popular second home locations like the lake district and cornwall, where a large proportion of the houses are second homes. Previously the discount for an empty property was a statutory 50%, but that meant those councils lost out on CT income due to the high proportion of "empty" second homes. Of course, once councils had the discretion to provide a discount between 10% and 50%, they all started allowing the minimum discount, because it increases their income.

But yes, as a home owner it would now be financially beneficial to allow someone to live in your house free of charge rather than allow it to stand empty. Even better, move a student in, then it's exempt

[Andeh13]

I'm livid, beyond furious...

Apparently I am unable to get the single occupancy discount because technically no one will be living here FULL TIME any more. So I can't get a single occupancy discount, but they are happy to charge me for multi-occupancy...thus costing me an extra 25% for only partial single residence...

All my bills stay here, all my furniture stays here and I will be here at the weekend until it sells (empty house, all my possessions here over winter etc...).

Im so angry!



edit: What stops me calling up next week and saying my girlfriend moved out, and I will be occasionally staying with her, thus living here full time? How do they prove full time occupancy? All my furniture & most of my worldly possessions will be here but bills will have stopped....

[scaryjim]

If they think you're lying about it they can request permission to monitor the property, as per RIPA. If all your furniture will be in the hosue then I'm afraid it's not empty, so you can't get the exemption. And yes, as I said before it's a ridiculous piece of legislation that screws over people in your position, all to ostensibly discourage second home ownership. I had it too when I moved out of my first house, and I ended up paying 90% CT for about 4 months after my expemtion ran out.

Mind you, I was genuinely moved out and living elsewhere, with all the furniture gone and everything. It sounds like you will effectively be using it as a second home, tbh. You could argue with them about it being your main home, but how far you get will probably depend on the arrangements you make for the new job. If you're staying in a hotel or B&B for the new job you can reasonably claim this as your only, and therefore main, home. If you rent a flat, then you'll have to declare one of them as your main home and one as an unoccupied - but not empty - dwelling. And at that point you'll end up paying 90% on one of them anyway, so you're pretty much stuck...

EDIT: just re-read your OP.

Whilst you're staying in the hotel, your current home will be your only home. Assuming you're the only person living there, you will get a single person discount.
When your rented place is ready, on 1st January, you will then have 2 homes. It will be up to you to work out which is your main home, but they can't both be. That means you'll only be living in one of them, so you'll only qualify for single person discount at one of them. The other will be classed as a second home, and you will pay between 50% and 90% of the normal CT you would be liable to (let's be honest, it's going to be 90% as no council is to give you more discount than they have to). It might be worth working out which property has the highest council tax charge, and declaring that one as your main home, as you'll get a larger discount on it.

CT legislation has worked like that for ten years now. It's annoying but, I'm afraid, correct.

[Andeh13]

edit; ignore this. Posting when angry does nothing! Needless to say Crawley Council are a bunch of complete oiks in my opinion!

[Andeh13]

How do I declare my main home? The new 'home' is a small, scuzzy type garden flat where I will be begrudingly spending most mid week nights. All bills and council tax included.

My main home has all my furniture in it and is still where everything is delivered to and billed to...though I was thinking of cutting off the gas/leccy/water, which i may not bother with now. The principle of this all has me furious with them.

If MPs can play the system, bounce back and forth then.....