Budget Mar 13 Thread

[Top_gun]

You think I'm toeing a party line.

No where did I say you were towing a party line? This is typical of shooting your mouth off before thinking what I actually said.

On a scale of how dumb I think the new home buying scheme is, we're talking about 2/3s of a Brown.

I think a number of Tory supporters are uneasy about the home buying scheme. I remember last Thursday hearing Michael Portillo on the very subject.

I really think it is that bad. However the way he thinks it's bad, for the reason I elaborated at length, are un-just and petty.Please, teach me what your doing here again?Depends which health insurance you refer too, as I've said many times before, I consider free at point of access medical aid and health services to be a necessity for a first world society. It appears its more about you saying I'm a party member, I'm not. When it comes to things in the budget, I think the best ideas, such as raising personal allowance, are not tory.Nothing about the people before him? You know all that public sector borrowing hidden via PFI, all the rise in national debt, so that any change in GDP thrusts us in to a nasty defect. Oh yea, its all Osbornes fault. There are things that could have been done differently, but borrowing to spend cash? I can't believe anything can suggest that is a good thing, if you feel that way, please tell me where the cash should be spent? I've ranted enough in this thread about my feelings where I think we need investment, where for you? If you don't believe the data, that we messed up in 2004-2008 period, with increasing debt fuelled spending, I'd love to know why? I can't imagine how it was worthwhile spending, it wasn't looking back with the benefit of hindsight, it didn't feel it at the time.I don't think it is that he is out of his depth, I think it is that the actions which would really help, are politically undesirable, so they don't have the strength to do what is needed for a quicker recovery.HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No seriously. Now your saying that use of government fiscal policy isn't the solution, yet your blaming Osborn (for what, I'm not sure, you appear to be on the spend, spend, spend). Also you'll notice in all threads where I talk about Keynesian stimulus theory I normally state that it depends where the money is spent. In one thread a while back I remarked on what would happen if they government just wrote me a cheque for £1.5bn, if they would get a return greater than the borrowing for the investment.

Let's remember PFIs were invented by the Tories in the nineties. I must admit I'm not a fan of PFIs but without them Blair & Brown could not rebuild the sheer numbers of schools and hospitals which decayed under a Tory government.

It is, perfectly fair, even wikipedia agrees, that Japan used a lot of Keynesian stimulus, and it failed, badly, it made things worse, as the stimulus not just failed, you had the increase in cost, due to the debt.

Actually wikipedia said this: "However, there is serious dispute on whether or not such “lost decade” or decades actually took place."

I'm afraid the wikipedia article did not state Keynesian policy badly failed badly. It seems your lack of understanding on economics makes you think Japan's policy failed.

Actually child poverty is defined as a number on a spreadsheet, this is what I'm talking about, it is a legally relivent economic indicator.

People who are homeless, the males with no children who generally appear last on any waiting list, will still be were they where before the decade started. It is not the bottom rung who are loosing out, in fact on a global scale, those in most poverty are having their lifestyle improved. But this is coming at the expense of everyone else, as I said before, we profited on their cheap labour.

I already know the definition of poverty thank you very much. The point I was making, was that of human misery and no spreadsheet on earth will give that level of feeling.

In fact its amazing, I have not said anything positive about the Tories, only neutral, I've said a lot that is bad about Labour, we know it is bad, we know the mistake they made, which many people knew at the time was wrong. Why is everything bad for you a result of the Tory party?

I don't think there's that much difference between Labour & Tory apart from economic direction.

I fear your a champaign socalist, who if anyone uses numbers to suggest your ideas are unsustainable, they are someone who is just looking at figures on a spreadsheet (which is the most important thing to do for any planning!) when your ideas mess up, badly, it can't be the ideas, because the morals behind it are good.

Sorry, I don't drink champagne but I try to be sociable.

I can't help but think of you as the kind of person that would give everyone £1,000 each. Not realising it would actually hurt the poorest people the most due to the localised relative change on inflation. I'm not calling you selfish, just that you should have respect for numbers, spreadsheets, maths or any of the guises of economic theory.

Judging by your level of thinking it's clear you're unable to gauge my level of thinking. And no I would not give a thousand pounds to each person unless it's your money of course!

[Zerox]

No where did I say you were towing a party line? This is typical of shooting your mouth off before thinking what I actually said.

Actually you said it right here

Halloweenjack was just expressing his own view on the budget. To suggest his opinion was purely motivated on demonising a group of greedy people is just plain ridiculous. Sorry TA but there are a few people here who are capable of thinking for themselves rather than towing a party line.

Seems fairly obvious to me.

I think a number of Tory supporters are uneasy about the home buying scheme. I remember last Thursday hearing Michael Portillo on the very subject.

This had no bearing on what TheAnimus has said.

Let's remember PFIs were invented by the Tories in the nineties. I must admit I'm not a fan of PFIs but without them Blair & Brown could not rebuild the sheer numbers of schools and hospitals which decayed under a Tory government.

!) They couldn't care less about balancing the budget, it could have been done entirely by the public sector if they so wished. 2) Where is your proof for saying that schools and hospitals decayed under the Previous Conservative government?

Actually wikipedia said this: "However, there is serious dispute on whether or not such “lost decade” or decades actually took place."

I'm afraid the wikipedia article did not state Keynesian policy badly failed badly. It seems your lack of understanding on economics makes you think Japan's policy failed.

Too easy.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/...-failed-japan/

"There is a dispute" - That means that the legacy of Japanese Keynsian stimulus is not as simple as saying it failed/did not fail, like you are trying to say.

I don't think there's that much difference between Labour & Tory apart from economic direction.

Doesn't answer question, and contends that the only difference between the Conservatives and Labour is their economic direction, whatever that is. Horribly simplistic anyway.

Judging by your level of thinking it's clear you're unable to gauge my level of thinking. And no I would not give a thousand pounds to each person unless it's your money of course!

Yeah, stupid TheAnimus, explaining his points with proper economic theory. The nerve.

Honestly, looking over your replies to this thread, I am not really sure that anyone can gauge your "level of thinking". Your flippancy towards TheAnimus, Wasabi and Saracen, the latter of whom you accused of using "poor excuse mongering", is breathtakingly arrogant.

You have not, in any of your replies, used any reasoning whatsoever, let alone this "economic reasoning" that you constantly refer to, possibly because you do not understand economics yourself or you are too lazy to properly respond to those who have rebutted you quite well or that you do not in fact have any counter-arguments whatsoever.

Regardless, despite your inability to take into account the opinions of others, you have resorted to personal attacks, which breaches the Code of Conduct, but have not been moderated so far. I can think of an explanation why.

One reason could be that the mods are are allowing you the protection of free speech that we allow to people like Nick Griffen of the BNP Party. By this I mean allowing the airing of ludicrous, bigoted and ill-constructed arguments (if yours can be called one) for the express purpose of annihilating it with reasonable counter-arguments. You may think that you are fighting the good fight, but I ask that you retire and save yourself any further headaches from having to reply to every single point raised in a comment that you do not agree with, because anyone who takes the time to read all responses carefully will be able to see how badly you have lost.

Edit: To TheAnimus. The villa has been sold!

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/289676/

Shame nobody decided to report it though.....

[TheAnimus]

Edit: To TheAnimus. The villa has been sold!

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/289676/

Shame nobody decided to report it though.....

Oh dear, poor thing. Is Polly now downgraded to a Cava Socialist?

[Top_gun]

Sorry but I'm not able to find any merit in your post other than a poor attempt to support TheAnimus and intent on slurring others who stand in the way of your views. I almost pissed myself when you said TheAnimus used economic reasoning.

Actually you said it right here

Seems fairly obvious to me.

This had no bearing on what TheAnimus has said.

!) They couldn't care less about balancing the budget, it could have been done entirely by the public sector if they so wished. 2) Where is your proof for saying that schools and hospitals decayed under the Previous Conservative government?


Too easy.

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/...-failed-japan/

"There is a dispute" - That means that the legacy of Japanese Keynsian stimulus is not as simple as saying it failed/did not fail, like you are trying to say.

Doesn't answer question, and contends that the only difference between the Conservatives and Labour is their economic direction, whatever that is. Horribly simplistic anyway.

Yeah, stupid TheAnimus, explaining his points with proper economic theory. The nerve.

Honestly, looking over your replies to this thread, I am not really sure that anyone can gauge your "level of thinking". Your flippancy towards TheAnimus, Wasabi and Saracen, the latter of whom you accused of using "poor excuse mongering", is breathtakingly arrogant.

You have not, in any of your replies, used any reasoning whatsoever, let alone this "economic reasoning" that you constantly refer to, possibly because you do not understand economics yourself or you are too lazy to properly respond to those who have rebutted you quite well or that you do not in fact have any counter-arguments whatsoever.

Regardless, despite your inability to take into account the opinions of others, you have resorted to personal attacks, which breaches the Code of Conduct, but have not been moderated so far. I can think of an explanation why.

One reason could be that the mods are are allowing you the protection of free speech that we allow to people like Nick Griffen of the BNP Party. By this I mean allowing the airing of ludicrous, bigoted and ill-constructed arguments (if yours can be called one) for the express purpose of annihilating it with reasonable counter-arguments. You may think that you are fighting the good fight, but I ask that you retire and save yourself any further headaches from having to reply to every single point raised in a comment that you do not agree with, because anyone who takes the time to read all responses carefully will be able to see how badly you have lost.

Edit: To TheAnimus. The villa has been sold!

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/289676/

Shame nobody decided to report it though.....

[TheAnimus]

Sorry but I'm not able to find any merit in your post other than a poor attempt to support TheAnimus and intent on slurring others who stand in the way of your views. I almost pissed myself when you said TheAnimus used economic reasoning.

So you still deny you said:

No where did I say you were towing a party line? This is typical of shooting your mouth off before thinking what I actually said.

but you'd said:

Sorry TA but there are a few people here who are capable of thinking for themselves rather than towing a party line.

oh, wait your a rabid brown supported aren't you, of course something that happened only a few hours ago gets re-written doesn't it!

It's as if we have stumbled upon someone who works in recdep, in the Ministry of Truth!

[peterb]

Edit: To TheAnimus. The villa has been sold!

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/289676/

Shame nobody decided to report it though.....

I wonder if she invested the proceeds in Cyprus?

[sammyc]

There is another reading of Top_Gun's post, as simply a defence of HalloweenJack, in response to the original reference to toeing party lines, with no further inference.

You come across as rather, whats the word, bitter on this matter, even towing a petty political line that it is going to be used by a group of people you appear to deride.

Halloweenjack was just expressing his own view on the budget. To suggest his opinion was purely motivated on demonising a group of greedy people is just plain ridiculous. Sorry TA but there are a few people here who are capable of thinking for themselves rather than towing a party line.

IE: HalloweenJack is thinking for himself in this matter and not toeing a party line.
That was my immediate interpretation at the time, correct me if I'm wrong by all means.