Do you buy Organic?

[Rob]

Listening to the radio yesterday, it was announced that the criteria for claiming Organic status has been relaxed by our 'esteemed' Minister for food.

Now you can call your Eggs 'Organic - Free Range' if you have no more that 10,000* birds in each 'house' and they have 'access' to the outside. Now I'm sorry, this cannot be right?

With that many birds, many in the centre are never going to ever see the light of day. Plus I would imagine the excrement and parasites would be very high.

Now I always try to find organic meat/poultry etc, primarily for the better animal husbandry and care. Whenever possible I buy direct from the farm. But how many of the average supermarket shoppers are going to realise that their 'Organic' eggs have been produced in a HUGE hangar, by aneamic chickens sat in their own poo?





(Mods - Posted here for greater awareness. Feel free to move to food and drink if you wish)

* - (could be 12,000), I am trying to confirm number, but not posted on any websites yet.

[Rave]

DEFRA= Department for the Elimination of Farming and Rural Affairs.

Nothing those clowns do surprises me any more.

Rich :¬)

[Zak33]

I buy Organic....all my veg, and eggs and milk.

I dont eat organic meat, cos it is SO EXPENSIVE

the egg thing is harsh, and you are right to point it out, BUT ORGANIC means no chemicals, and no food enhancers, and no chemicals on the land...it does not mean good consitions for chickens
Organic means chickens not force fed growth hormones, egg boosters etc etc.

Shame....isn't it We want the birds to be happy, we pay more for it, happily, and someone moves the goal posts AGAIN

[Rob]

BUT ORGANIC means no chemicals, and no food enhancers, and no chemicals on the land...it does not mean good consitions for chickens

Ah, but it does....

Under the EU COUNCIL REGULATION (EEC) No 2092/91 24 June 1991
"on organic production of agricultural products and indications referring thereto on agricultural
products and foodstuffs"

8.4. Poultry

8.4.1. Poultry must be reared in open-range conditions and cannot be kept in
cages.

8.4.2. Water fowl must have access to a stream, pond or lake whenever the
weather conditions permit in order to respect animal welfare requirements
or hygienic conditions.

8.4.3. Buildings for all poultry must meet the following minimum conditions:

— at least one third shall be solid, that is, not of slatted or of grid
construction, and covered with a litter material such as straw,
wood shavings, sand or turf;
— in poultry houses for laying hens, a sufficiently large part of the
floor area available to the hens must be available for the collection
of bird droppings;
— they must have perches of a size and number commensurate with
the size of the group and of the birds as laid down in Annex VIII;
— they must have exit/entry pop-holes of a size adequate for the
birds, and these pop-holes must have a combined length of at least
4 m per 100 m2 area of the house available to the birds;

— each poultry house must not contain more than:
4 800 chickens,
3 000 laying hens,
5 200 guinea fowl,
4 000 female Muscovy or Peking ducks or 3 200 male Muscovy or
Peking ducks or other ducks,
2 500 capons, geese or turkeys;
— the total usable area of poultry houses for meat production on any
single production unit, must not exceed 1 600 m2.

Organic eggs HAVE to be free range

[Whalefish]

I dont eat organic meat, cos it is SO EXPENSIVE
(

Waitrose Orgasmic Chicken is fairly good value and tastes much better than
the factory farmed stuff.

[Spud1]

organic..pfft I have more brains than that, why pay extra for food that tastes exactly the same...

[Howard]

Spud's got the idea.

Plus organic stuff doesn't taste right IMO. I'm used to food which has been processed a little

[Zak33]

learned summit there again...cheers Rob.

As fdor tasting the same....yeah..right.

I can blind taste eggs now. And toms. And sweetcorn on the cob. I am sure Id get it right

[Rob]

organic..pfft I have more brains than that, why pay extra for food that tastes exactly the same...

I originally said, my MAIN reason for buying is the better animal care

But your comment is exactly my worry. With these unscrupous practises there wont be a difference. You would pay the extra premium, and still get factory farmed food.

[Zak33]

my main reason is its better for ME.....

the animals are second.

if they were first priority I wouldnt eat the poor little sods in the first place

[turkster]

Well my parents grow the majority of their own vegetables and we keep Chicken, ducks, geese, sheep and pigs for meat and a cow for milk. Its all properly organic . It means they/we (when I'm at home) are about 99% self sufficient in meat and 75% in fruit and vegetables. It certainly tastes a lot better than non organic supermarket stuff especcially the meat and fruit. (I have never found apples in a supermarket as good as the ones you can grow yourself.)

Raising your own animals for meat means it is actually possible to afford it . It also highlights the difference between organic/freerange and factiory farming. Having been in battery/poultry sheds and pig farms I have grave reservations about buying non organic meat (especcially when the pig farmers have to wear protective clothing to handle the pig feed becuase it has som many growth hormones/antibiotics in it ). When i am away from home i either bring meat with me or go vegetarian. Those new brit regulations Rob posted dont sound good although I think the size of the sheds/houses is also very important. I have been in poultry houses (commercial non organic) and helped pick out the dead young chickens that had been trampled underfoot. They have so little room you can barely step without crushing one . Like all these thibngs organic sounds like a good idea but under the pressures of comercialism coreners are cut and I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of organoic poultry farms were little different to normal ones.

[stytagm]

I used to work / help out on a small farm for a few years when I was at school. We kept a few sows and a boar, and about 100 sheep. It wasn't organic and I'd argue that it wouldn't have been much / any better if it was.

Everything was free range. Doesn't make much diffreence for the sheep, but for the pigs having a field rather than a crate makes a big difference. Nothing was fed any hormones etc, but the feed wasn't organic (which it needs to be for the livestock to organic iirc?).

We did use wormers and sprays for flystrike (equivalent of a sheepdip but safer), and if an animal was ill would call the vet in. If you're organic I belive that once an animal has had a dose of antibiotics for the flue, you can't use it's meat, we were too small to afford that.

**Don't eat your dinner and read this next bit - fair warning**
I'd argue that certainly for the sheep allowing flystrike to get hold (which it would have done this summer, warm and wet) is a bit cruel. Maggots under the sheeps skin, lots of them, not nice.

It was more of a hobby farm for the students really, and ends met due to all the free labour they got, but the meat was fantastic and you knew that the animals had lived in good conditions, deffo not factory farming.

Only weird thing was eating a lamb / pig you'd seen growing up. Some people couldn't do it, me quite happy to. After all at least I knew where it came from, 's got to be better than Asda cheapskate's stuff.

The point? Ummm....Is there any chance the supermarkets could label up a sort of intermediate grade of meat? (Is tehre something called conservation grade now?) Well looked after, but not as fiddly and expensive as organic?

(PS How long 'till Lent? I think I need to give up long boring rambling posts - soz)