Was just reading through the Bob Crow thread and heard on the TV that Tony Benn passed away this morning. Another divisive character who did much (in my opinion) to engage the man in the street with politics.
Rest in peace Tony, mankind is diminished by your loss.
Last edited by Splash; 14-03-2014 at 11:26 AM. Reason: corrected typo
Originally Posted by Splash
Has the pleasure of meeting him a few times and he was an absolute gentleman. The Left has lost one it's most articulate and reasoned voices.
RIP Tony
While I never really liked his politics I always listened to what he had to say. He had great integrity and its something the present bunch could do well to learn from.
RIP Tony
Isn't salad what food eats??
I too met him, years ago, and while we might differ on Bob Crow, I would agree with that assessment.
Certainly in later years, I found him thoughtful, charming, and while I disagreed with him politically, he was extremely well-educated and oh so dangerous to get into a discussion with.
Believe it or not, this does really sadden me.
RIP, Tony.
Never met him, but he was (in his later years) very thought provoking and interesting to listen to. As a politician, and as a minister, he was, I think, a great asset to the Conservative party as his views were so far to the left that it frightened many middle of the road or floating voters (who were so assiduously and successfully wooed by Blair - who is a political pygmy in comparison) away from the party.
But a formidable intellect and a man who also had an outstanding reputation representing his constituents - which is as it should be, although sadly with some career politicians, that sometimes appears to be a secondary consideration.
He was described on the "Today" programme as "A National Treasure" a term often bandied about without thought. But certainly in his latter years, after he retired fas an MP, his delivery seemed (to me) to be more measured, as he no longer had a point to prove. I would like to have heard him speak in person - sadly no longer possible.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute
Heard him speak in person at a lunchtime lecture while at uni. way back in the early 90s. Even though I still consider many of his political views completely barmy, he was a formidable character, and a great public speaker.
Indeed. As an active politician, something of a firebrand and ideologue. After retirement, I don't think his views or beliefs changed much, if at all, but presentation certainly did, and he was as charming and urbane as it's possible to get. Formiddable too.
It's often the case. Michael Portillo is far, FAR more convincing to me as a broadly non-affiliated commentator, and more measured and thoughtful, not to mention honest, in presentation, than he was as a party member.
If politicians want to know why people disengage, compare the stance of both these men while active to their approach in retirement (or voter-mandated career change) and you'll see why people don't trust politicians. Whether left or right, Benn or Portillo, they carry an obvious sincerity when they're speaking their exact views than when "preaching" as a politician. And most people react to most politicians as they would to snake oil salesmen for a good reason .... left or right, we see right through the hype, and it makes our spidey senses tingle.
In retirement (or in some cases, in my experience at least, in private) politicians are FAR more credible when speaking honestly, and from the heart, not either toeing the party line, or watching out for media-engineered verbal landmines.
Most people aren't the gullible muppets modern "professional" politicians take us for ... and yes, Cameron, Osborne, Miliband, Balls, Clegg, et.al. ... I most emphatically am referring to you.
A good point, I actually quite like Portillo when he does the Great Railway Journeys thing, his love of railways really comes across. His banter with Diane Abbott on whatever review show it is they do is quite amusing. When he was an MP, I laughed when he got voted out.
To be fair we've probably all had to proclaim something we don't believe in at some point or other in our lives, and if we're lucky it's mostly a limited experience associated with work, with limited impact on the wider world, and the dirty feeling goes away pretty quickly. It's 'just' that the scale and impact of the stuff spouted by the average politician is far far greater. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, hopefully, at least some politicians must have the decency to spend at least some time hating themselves.
I very much agree with regards to Tony Benn though, he actually seemed both genuinely interested and to believe in what he said, rather than spouting dumbed down nonsense all the time.
In a similar vein I had some begrudging respect for Thatcher - she at least seemed to believe what she was doing was right (and not just for her). I'm not saying she was right, just that I think she thought she was...
(...though I guess you could say the same of several despots and warmongers)
In a similar vein I had some begrudging respect for Thatcher - she at least seemed to believe what she was doing was right (and not just for her). I'm not saying she was right, just that I think she thought she was
(...though I guess you could say the same of several despots and warmongers)
Oh my God, what have you done!..............
Funnily enough that echoes a discussion that me and SWMBO were having this morning - namely that there's fewer and fewer of the old style speakers available these days. Current politicians all seem pretty mealy mouthed by comparison - presumably targeting their delivery to TV rather than a municipal hall full of folk. Actually it's only really the "loonies" like George Galloway who seem to be capable of that "big delivery".
Didn't particularly like Tony Benn because of his pro-CND stance, but there's plenty he said I DID agree with. And, as stated on the Breakfast news this morning, he seems to have been "pro-" technology. Not something you can really say about today's crop of nobodies - unless of course that "tech" is something to do with spying on the electorate!
Definitely one of those folks who did politics as a calling, rather than merely a job. And all power to him for that - hopefully someone will be inspired to take up where he left off, otherwise we definitely will be the poorer for his passing.
Career status: still enjoying my new career in DevOps, but it's keeping me busy...
Very true, although don't forget he was a member of the aristocracy as Viscount Stansgate, a hereditary title, before he became Tony Benn, and had the private means to pursue politics.
And that is not a criticism.
It possibly made him a better politician as he was not reliant on sponsorship or donations so there was no question of him being beholden to his sponsor/donors - only to himself.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Been helped or just 'Like' a post? Use the Thanks button!
My broadband speed - 750 Meganibbles/minute
Admitted some begrudging respect for her, then pretty much compared her to Hitler in the next breath... And no, I don't have any respect for Hitler, begrudging or otherwise. I just meant that at least she seemed to have the courage of her convictions, whereas from Blair onwards, we seem to have elected smarmy two faced gits, though to be fair my view of politicians in general hasn't changed much since Yes Minister.Oh my God, what have you done!..............
Not quite true, his dad was the viscount, he was in politics for a long while before he became one, and then only was for 3 years, during which time he was campaigning to pass law allowing him to disclaim his peerage so he could stand as an MP again.
He was obviously from money, but hardly what you'd call aristocracy, his dad was a politician, but his grandfather was from a fairly modest background.
I was only joshing, I know what you meant. I was more meaning that it would all kick off on here again, regarding her legacy.
In all seriousness, I’ve been reading this thread and it threw up a question. Are modern Politicians the way they are (the slickness, hype, lack of sincerity etc) despite the public, or because of the public? Is being that way the only route for most to get elected into mainstream politics these days?
He was what I would call, if I labelled him, a conviction politician, and I don't mean the Chris Huhne variety.
He was, at least to a large extent, espousing and promoting as policy what he believed in, and trying to convince us, rather than apparently believing in what focus groups tell you is electorally popular, and worse, electorally popular with the particular segment of the electorate you're trying to seduce .... today.
Today's politicians, by and large, have more in common with whores. No, forget that, it's unfair .... on whores. At least they're honest about what it is they're selling. Perhaps snake-oil salesmen is a better comparison. Because today's deal appears to be that politicians will believe in whatever will get their backside onto a ministerial chair .... at least until their rear lands on the chair.
I loved Robert Heinlein's definition of an honest politician .... one that stay's bought. Cynical, but not far off the mark.
Benn was a different breed, maybe a different era. He believed what he believed, and wanted to convince us. Today, they believe whatever they think we want them to believe. If Benn had been more centrist in his beliefs, he could well have been PM. As it was, his views were too far left, even for many Labour politicians. They were his views alright, but many were neither centrist, nor popular.
I agreed with Tony Benn on some things, disagreed with him on a lot/most, but thoroughly respected his sincerity and integrity. Sad loss.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote
