1600 W maximum on vacuum cleaners from from Sept!

[DanceswithUnix]

I was just on my way to bed what I read your post last night so missed watching the videos but I'll be sure to do so later today. I just wanted to quickly respond to your post after reading it. I'm hopeful about a viable form of energy storage as it would be part of a solution to many of the challenges we face in regards to energy distribution. Of course we already have pumped storage but constructing such sites is costly and they're used more to pick up slack for peak load, not having to supply the grid for potentially days at a time.

The LFTR is pitched as meeting some of the challenges of a less centralised grid like the ones in India/China, although there are of course challenges and uncertainties facing this reactor design. Nonetheless, thorium-based reactors seem to be given a back seat in terms of research scale and funding while there is a lot of potential in the technology. At least India in particular seem to be concentrating on it as they obviously have an increasing demand for electricity, and a huge natural reserve of thorium.

Did you see this article on Tesla disrupting energy storage and hence generation?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08...organ_stanley/

[watercooled]

Aren't they lithium based batteries though?

[DanceswithUnix]

Aren't they lithium based batteries though?

If Mr Musk's company lands a massive market for domestic or local grid energy storage, I'm sure they will hire people to start working on the best technology they can find for that.

Mind you, other than weight, how much different are the requirements for car energy storage vs domestic? I couldn't find a lot of space for power storage at my home, so it would need good density. Cost is a barrier to getting started. I don't want energy storage that makes a lot of noise, just like I would in my car. Seems an interesting fit.

[kalniel]

Weight is a big one, but there are also different safety and possibly usage requirements.

[watercooled]

Also factoring in the environmental concerns of huge-scale lithium battery production. Electric vehicles and grid storage would demand a production capacity orders of magnitude greater than what we're used to, and lithium battery production isn't really 'green'.

Electric cars aren't nearly prevalent enough to use them as a basis for a comparison to grid storage. Small-scale, lithium batteries for vehicles may be close to feasible but I'm not convinced they're any greener than modern internal combustion engines considering both how the power is generated, and as I say the environmental cost of their production and replacement. Scaling it up to levels necessary for widespread vehicle and grid use, even if economically feasible, certainly concerns me.

Another consideration for grid storage is the distribution of electricity by sector; domestic use only accounts for just over a third of the UK's consumption. So even with homes capable of producing and/or storing/balancing their own power needs, that still leaves other power consumers.

There is definitely room for improvement in those sectors; for instance how many public premises do you enter and see rows of unused P4 era computers left on 24/7, and air conditioned/heated shops with doors left open. There's only so much you can squeeze domestic users, but there clearly doesn't currently seem much of a push for the other sectors to cut back their energy consumption.

Edit to add: On the subject of small vs large scale implementation, this also directly applies to electric vehicles regardless of storage technology. Small scale they don't make much of a difference to the grid, but start replacing combustion engines on a large scale, where is that energy going to come from?

Then factor in gas central heating; according to Ofgem, average electricity consumption is 3,300kWh. Gas is 16,500kWh. That's quite an issue if you want to stop using fossil fuels altogether, isn't it?

[kalniel]

Then factor in gas central heating; according to Ofgem, average electricity consumption is 3,300kWh. Gas is 16,500kWh. That's quite an issue if you want to stop using fossil fuels altogether, isn't it?

That could change quite rapidly though with increased gas prices and cheaper electricity. Going from gas heating to electric is relatively simple and could be done in a generation given lifespan of white goods/boilers.

[DanceswithUnix]

Another consideration for grid storage is the distribution of electricity by sector; domestic use only accounts for just over a third of the UK's consumption. So even with homes capable of producing and/or storing/balancing their own power needs, that still leaves other power consumers.

Only a third of the national usage, but I'm guessing peak domestic demand is later in the day from peak industrial. Or another way, what do the generators do for the other 16 hours?

As for green, I don't think it comes into it here. I don't know anyone with local generation who is doing because it is green (though that is nice), they seem to do it because they want lower energy bills.

[Top_gun]

Here's a Which magazine conversation on Dyson machines.

http://conversation.which.co.uk/ener...cuum-cleaners/

Basically what they're saying is that Dyson machines rarely wins a Best Buy and there are better and cheaper vacuum cleaners elsewhere. In other words, Dyson machines are expensive for what they are. I guess one of the reasons why their machines are overpriced is to pay for their five warranty on parts and labour. How else would Dyson make a profit?

There have been a number of newspaper articles in the past which informed the public about the unreliability of Dyson machines. In fact, Which magazine also stated publicly, at one stage, they could not recommend a Dyson because of their unreliability issue. Perhaps, this is what drove Dyson to offer a 5 year guarantee on their products. What happens to your Dyson if it breaks down just after the warranty period has expired? Yeap, it goes straight to the rubbish tip. Now all Miele machines are designed to last 20 years. Why pay for four Dyson machines when you can buy just one Miele machine for that period?

Interestingly, 44% of the Which magazine poll thought Dyson machines were over-hyped while just 29% thought their machine was the best. I'd imagine they would say that just to save face considering the amount of money they had paid.

Reading through the comments section gives you further evidence of Dyson's unreliability. On other reviews, I have seen former Dyson owners being please with their new Miele machine especially on cleaning performance.

The Dyson DC54 costs £479 on the John Lewis website. No thanks

PeterB makes a case against vacuum cleaners using bags as not being green. But really, this argument is minor when you consider the cost of replacement of a faulty Dyson or engineers travelling across the country to fix machines.

My Miele uses an Hepa filter which means 99.995% of air leaving the cleaner is particle free. In fact the British Allergy Foundation recommends the Miele over other brands. Nor have I noticed a loss of suction when the bag is nearly full.

I also like to see the EU extend the energy saving scheme to other appliances. Although my kettle is intermittently on throughout the day, it uses more energy than my fridge-freezer which is on 24/7. More importantly, it means lower electricity bills for consumers.

[watercooled]

Only a third of the national usage, but I'm guessing peak domestic demand is later in the day from peak industrial. Or another way, what do the generators do for the other 16 hours?

I'm not sure if I follow the point you're making there, my point being domestic use is far from the only significant energy consumer. UK demand does vary quite significantly from day to night though.

Or did you mean that in terms of instantaneous power use, industry and domestic effectively balance out because of the staggered usage patterns? In which case yeah, good point. I'll see if I can dig up any relevant data although I expect it will be harder to find.

That could change quite rapidly though with increased gas prices and cheaper electricity. Going from gas heating to electric is relatively simple and could be done in a generation given lifespan of white goods/boilers.

My point was, look how much extra energy would be demanded from the electricity grid if gas wasn't an option. Granted, home efficiency improvements could reduce demand further but only to a point before it starts seriously impacting peoples lives e.g. fuel poverty.

[watercooled]

I also like to see the EU extend the energy saving scheme to other appliances. Although my kettle is intermittently on throughout the day, it uses more energy than my fridge-freezer which is on 24/7. More importantly, it means lower electricity bills for consumers.

Boil only the water you need then. There really aren't any significant efficiency improvements to be made on appliances whose purpose is to create heat; to improve efficiency you must reduce wasted energy relative to useful energy. Where is energy wasted in an electric kettle?

About all I can think of is having kettles allow you to boil smaller amounts of water, or measure it more easily.

[watercooled]

Only a third of the national usage, but I'm guessing peak domestic demand is later in the day from peak industrial. Or another way, what do the generators do for the other 16 hours?

I've found this document which contains some graphs showing energy use over time-of-day by sector. http://www.sustainabilityfirst.org.u...ary%202012.pdf
Pages of interest (page numbers according to pdf reader, not printed page numbers):
p31 domestic
p46 commercial
p53 industrial

Overlaying the graphs, there is some negative correlation between domestic and commercial lining up with what you'd expect due to working hours etc. Industrial use seems fairly constant though.
Also, I'm not sure what's going on with the start of the graphs before 1-2am, although I expect it's just an error with creating the graphs rather than weird data.

[DanceswithUnix]

Here's a Which magazine conversation on Dyson machines.

http://conversation.which.co.uk/ener...cuum-cleaners/

Interesting, and the bloke who wrote it has a degree from Southampton University who have an excellent Engineering dept. Shame he studied history. Perhaps he is comparing it to a 16th century broom. Sorry, but giving someone a title of "Senior Researcher" isn't the same as having any relevant qualification to talk about a subject, it is just someone giving an opinion.

What happens to your Dyson if it breaks down just after the warranty period has expired? Yeap, it goes straight to the rubbish tip..

Just like mine did. Ooops no, silly me, paid £60, it was repaired the next day, including a full service and parts replaced that hadn't even failed but just might at some point in the future. Some of the best customer service I have ever experienced, and I will always pay a little extra for that.

I am in the slightly odd situation of having no less than three vacuum cleaners in the house. The one that gets used the most frequently? The Bissell Little Green Machine. If you own a cat, specially one that likes to display it's stomach contents to the world as often as ours, then it is marvellous. If the kids spill a drink on the sofa? I don't reach for kitchen towel, I reach for the Bissell. Wonderful little box. I believe it is 350W, but with a tiny nozzle for spot work that is pretty powerful. Wouldn't want to do a whole room with that little nozzle though, that would need a special kind of stupid.

The Dyson does the bulk of the work, and has done for 14 years. Basically a workhorse.

The Vax sits in the cupboard. A few times a year it washes a carpet, if it wasn't for that trick it would be gone as it is a pretty useless dry cylinder cleaner. I used to have some bags for it just in case the Dyson broke, but they never got used so I don't know where they are any more.

So there you go, three cleaners, three different brands, I have very little brand loyalty. So why am I defending the Dyson? Because I think you are talking rubbish.

If you want unreliable, just don't get me started on washing machines.

[Zak33]

Top_gun


Miele Rep.. and anti Dyson propoganda machine

Next thing he and Goose will be flying their jet over our houses, dropping leaflets that say "your Dyson will break...because it's not a Miele.. and besides.. I said so "

I love my Dysons and I had a Miele Cat and Dog and it was pants.

And if I say it.. it's true.


fact

[DanceswithUnix]

I've found this document which contains some graphs showing energy use over time-of-day by sector. http://www.sustainabilityfirst.org.u...ary%202012.pdf
Pages of interest (page numbers according to pdf reader, not printed page numbers):
p31 domestic
p46 commercial
p53 industrial

Overlaying the graphs, there is some negative correlation between domestic and commercial lining up with what you'd expect due to working hours etc. Industrial use seems fairly constant though.
Also, I'm not sure what's going on with the start of the graphs before 1-2am, although I expect it's just an error with creating the graphs rather than weird data.

Nice find! That is pretty much in line with what I was expecting.

The start is odd isn't it. Massive difference in domestic consumption from winter to summer which looks due to storage heaters on off peak electricity tariffs. Didn't realise there were so many storage heaters out there.

So yes, if that domestic demand went away, the overall demand would be more of a lump during working hours with not as much early and late in the day. OTOH, the domestic demand looks pretty spiky, the kind of thing you want local storage to help damp down.

[Top_gun]

Boil only the water you need then. There really aren't any significant efficiency improvements to be made on appliances whose purpose is to create heat; to improve efficiency you must reduce wasted energy relative to useful energy. Where is energy wasted in an electric kettle?

About all I can think of is having kettles allow you to boil smaller amounts of water, or measure it more easily.

I do boil as much as I need to, thank you very much.

However, I do recall a couple of years ago, it was very difficult to track down a kettle which can boil as little as one cup.

Moving on, we're in the 21st century and yet we're relying on old technology to boil a cup of water.

[watercooled]

The start is odd isn't it.

I mean the dramatic rise/fall rate for any given trace at the start of the graphs, I wasn't sure what would cause such dramatic differences in consumption in the early hours of the morning, although the storage heaters you mention, combined with timers set to switch on the hour, could go some way to explaining it.