Derek Kieper

[nichomach]

I realise that there is an expectation that if one's just died, one's spoken of with respect, but, peace be unto Vaul, this Kieper fellow's rather negated that expectation. As noted above, seatbelts aren't just about saving your own life, they're about not killing the person sat in front of you, about not causing your family grief, and not costing a huge amount of cash to clear up after you. They're not onerous, a seatbelt WOULD have saved his life, and IMO he's a prime candidate for a Darwin. I have very great sympathy for his family and friends, but for him? OK, some, but really not very much.

[Swafe]

fair point,

but if he wanted to play with his own life give him a revolver and one bullet and let him play russian roulette, not let him loose in a car where he can harm others by not wearinga belt

Its his choice, play Russian Roulette if he likes, but driving with no belt is a lot safer than that, 1/6 chance of dying compared with 6100 with the whole population of the Usa...its not that dangerous, he was just unlucky, if you rolled your car over multiple times you'd still have little change of surviving if you did have a seat belt on. Some people have even died from high speed collisions wearing seat belts, from the force of them literally cutting them in half.

As for harming others, I doubt not wearing a seatbelt would put much more risk on anyone elses life other than his own, it wouldnt hurt his passengers unless he passed on his views of not wearing a seat belt onto them, and as for other drivers, the impact is goin to be the same, unless he flew out the window and nutted them....which i doubt

[silent ben]

By not wearing a seatbelt he's not endangering other road users, other passengers maybe. Just cause he's not wearing a seatbelt doesn't mean he's more likely to crash.

[Swafe]

i doubt he would even risk the other passengers by him not wearing a seatbelt, unless he was in the back, and jolted his head into someone elses

he was just unlucky

[silent ben]

unless he was in the back, and jolted his head into someone elses

Thats what i ment. Mr_anderson seemed to be implying that he was endangering other road users with his lack of belt though.

[Rave]

Some people have even died from high speed collisions wearing seat belts, from the force of them literally cutting them in half.

At that speed, if the seatbelt hadn't cut them in half, they would have splattered against the dashboard anyway. I can't think of any crash situation where wearing a seatbelt wouldn't increase your chances of survival.

The point is, as Nichomach says, that wearing a seatbelt is not in any way onerous. I occasionally pull away and put it on while I'm driving, but it feels odd until I do (I know, I shouldn't). I quite often just put my seatbelt on without thinking even if I'm driving the 20 yards from the street to the garage. Not wearing a seatbelt is like playing chicken with intercity trains: stupid, pointless and dangerous.

Rich :¬)

[Flash]

fate

[Swafe]

At that speed, if the seatbelt hadn't cut them in half, they would have splattered against the dashboard anyway. I can't think of any crash situation where wearing a seatbelt wouldn't increase your chances of survival.

i didnt say it was safer not to wear a seatbelt, i was on about cases where seatbelt or no seatbelt your going to die - if he was flung out of the car after it doing several rolls, even with a seatbelt i doubt he would survive

[subucni]

on the flipside tho, he is right in a way - its his life, if he wanted to play ball with it, he should be allowed

I can agree with that, just as long as he wasn't putting anyone else's life at risk though. not like i knew him but R.I.P whoever he was

[Swafe]

if he was playing with other peoples lives, like taking speed and hitting the freeway, well then id call him a ****, as its only his own life hes playing with - its his choice if he doesnt hurt anyone else

[subucni]

Agreed, let's face it at the end of the day it's just common sense thats it's for your own good and everyone elses that you wear one, nobody should really NEED telling by a law in the first place.

[Stoo]

if he was flung out of the car after it doing several rolls, even with a seatbelt i doubt he would survive

The other people in the car (wearing seatbelts) survived..

[ERU]

My real take on all this is - Not all ways:

My brother crashed his truck at full speed just before xmas. He was thrown out through the cab window and 100m down the road. Not sure if he adopted the superman pose on route. He has no idea what happened but it seems the wheels/steering failed. He was back driving again in a week.


People seem to forget about risk and that it is actually part of being a human. He took a calculated risk and knew what he was doing. People are FAR too scared of risk, that we all try to eliminate it completely but it anit gonna happen folks! It is also worth mentioning that part of this reason is that the vast majority of people in our age actually panic when posed with a risk. By this i mean to the point where they can even function. If you have been at a serious accident you will know exactly what i mean - people standing around doing sod all to help. Some people will be perfectly happy with doing this and that's fine. I'm not slating them. I won't debate this topic on a gamers forum as the response from the majority of people here would be very predictable, as you have shown above. So this is my last post on the subject.


I don't usually drive without a seatbelt myself but i sometimes don't put it on and that should be MY choice. You can go into the family and hospital side of your pros and cons if you like but at the end of the day (and if you feel that strong about stuff like this) why anit you campaigning to stop smoking (i worked in a cancer hospital wheeling the dead people out) and alcohol? Or obesity? These are the REAL problems we are having with our hospitals, which are costing by far the most!
Or why don't you campiagn to stop me climbing, kayaking or mountaineering (as some people do!) as these are also a far greater risk? There is also the arguement; whilst thinking about costs, that i pay taxes - so if i want a trip to Hospital i should be entitled to it?


The problem folks is that pretty much no-one these days has adventures anymore (insert your LotR comment here ) - and i'm afraid an adventure carries a risk, perceived and/or real. People are <insert your own word here> who cannot accept resposibility. The fact that people are far too outspoken only compounds the issue. Whether or not you think is an important part of life is also up for debate but i stongly belive it is; particularly in childhood.


The family side of things is also something that i have taken thought over. If i have a serious crash i'm gonna be either fine after or killed/maimed anyhow. Car crashes, just like all risk; is all about luck and skill i.e. your abilty to drive or kayak. I don't think i'd be all that missed anyhow

http://www.techcentralstation.com/042803B.html basically says that thousands of US citizen's travel in SUVs - the most likely vehicles to roll over and kill it's occupants, as what happened to the Derek above...