I cannot imagine what it's like for the 800,000 US Federal workers not being paid

[Zak33]

I'm not US politcally knowledgable enough ...I'm uncertain how this can continue to drag on.

800,000 people haven't been paid for over a month because the US Government can't agree on a budget? Is that right?

Not a lack of money, or government bankrupcy...a lack of agreement on how to spend the budget. Is that right?

I cannot begin, for one moment, to begin to ponder the idea of 3/4 of a million members of local UK authority not being paid for a month!

How can that even be a thing?

Anyone care to explain because... it's like being told the world is flat or that cheese isn't real.

[PC-LAD]

Bye, Bye national security. Hello anarchy

[PC-LAD]

Funny thing is, it is something trump can't control at all. Congress is just throwing numbers back and forth whilst he's waiting to sign some paper. The USA's total expendature is spent badly as it is, there is no point in haveing such a large military when nukes and special forces exist. We only need deterrants. Furthermore, we need more space exploration. But for those without pay, I hope their situation improves.

[Zak33]

Funny thing is, it is something trump can't control at all. Congress is just throwing numbers back and forth whilst he's waiting to sign some paper. The USA's total expendature is spent badly as it is, there is no point in haveing such a large military when nukes and special forces exist. We only need deterrants. Furthermore, we need more space exploration. But for those without pay, I hope their situation improves.

but how can they NOT be paid?

Either you have a job... and you're paid.. or you're laid off and you don't get paid and go find a job.

What the hell are they supposed to do? How does a family survive with no income from something they've not created themselves?
Surely the budget for SALARY is agreed? I mean.. the same amount of people worked there before this all kicked off... so it's a known, right?

[Corky34]

....or that cheese isn't real.

Do they get back pay when it's over?

[PC-LAD]

There is no real explanation for it as the central government doesn't want to state how incompetent they are. If you check all the headlines, the workers are having to go to food banks in order to get by. Democracy is in a state where it is no longer a thing. The majority of our world lives by soft socialism. Not the 90s soft, i mean softer. But socialism regardless, with that people are having to work fairly but in this case that isn't being followed due to it's combination with what is almost far right capitalism within the upper ranks of the government. May sound a little 4chany but the fact their budget isn't negociated a year in advance is what baffles me. A just in time delivery for budget seems like a big dependancy.

[PC-LAD]

they should do, the budget was intended to include the wage from the revision date that passed. So they will get what they had the right to, it would lead to mass protest otherwise (not that protestes aren't already happening)

[Zak33]

Its a mystery to me how this could ever occur.

Has it ever occured before? Is there a previous example?

[TeePee]

They will get back pay. No one is working for free. But that doesn't help when so many, many people live paycheck to paycheck.

The situation is very simple. Congress, made of two parties, writes a budget, and Trump must sign it. Trump is refusing to sign anything that doesn't have money assigned to his pet campaign promise project. Democrats have seized on this and refuse to fund it as a way of making Trump look bad. Republicans in congress won't send a budget that Trump will reject in an attempt to mitigate the damage. This same scenario has happened in the past, when Obama and congress were in a dispute over one of his campaign promises, but it didn't last nearly as long.

That's it. Childish schoolyard petty bickering that has led to hundreds of thousands of people to miss paychecks and suffer significant hardships, and it doesn't look like there's a solution soon.

Trump's campaign promise was a wall along the Southern border. Obviously that's spectacularly stupid, and never going to happen. The Democrats have responded that it's immoral. Which is equally stupid. Border security is a real problem, and the money Trump is asking for (A fraction of what a wall would cost) could be used to reinforce or replace barriers in areas they'll really be effective. The shutdown has already cost more money in missed work than Trump is asking for.

But the issues and future of the country don't matter. It's all about scoring points with the electorate and gearing up for the 2020 election. Oh, and beating children for wearing hats.

[PC-LAD]

I mean there are worse things happening politically. Look at Venezuela

[Zak33]

I mean there are worse things happening politically. Look at Venezuela

everything is relative

Mozabiquie is quite an issue...but if you've got no money for food or heating because your employer, the government of the wealthiest country in the Western World hasn't paid you.... there isn't any other news - and this looks utterly purile and it would be farcical if it weren't so blummin stupid.

[blueball]

When the leader of a nation can, on a whim, stop Govt employees being lawfully paid then it is NOT a democracy.

[TeePee]

When the leader of a nation can, on a whim, stop Govt employees being lawfully paid then it is NOT a democracy.

That isn't happening.

[OilSheikh]

Trump is right to build the wall. Israel built a wall and it has been very successful in keeping unwanted Palestinians away. The drug problem is humongous in Mexico and the US has been on the receiving end for quite a while.

[Saracen999]

I'm not US politcally knowledgable enough ...I'm uncertain how this can continue to drag on.

800,000 people haven't been paid for over a month because the US Government can't agree on a budget? Is that right?

Not a lack of money, or government bankrupcy...a lack of agreement on how to spend the budget. Is that right?

I cannot begin, for one moment, to begin to ponder the idea of 3/4 of a million members of local UK authority not being paid for a month!

How can that even be a thing?

Anyone care to explain because... it's like being told the world is flat or that cheese isn't real.

Essentially, it's political bickering, and it relies on the famous "chevks and balances" part of the US governmental model, under which some powers are given to Congress (specifically, House of Representatives), and others to Executive, namely, Trump.

The House sets the budget and Trump can't initiate that. But the Pres has to sign off on it, and the House can't overrule that.

The idea is to prevent abuses of power, by either.

The reality is that for decades, just about any President that doesn't have his party in control in the House, and even some that do, have had budget rounds that are a considerable amount of horse-trading, and it's not unknown for it to cone down (and not just on the budget) to one side or the other offering .... erm .... inducements (and I mean political, not oersonal bungs) to get a few key votes in one house or the other on-side.

That checks and balances principle is both one of the best, and one of the worst, aspects of the system of government.

Of course, it's a bit more nuanced than that, and not all aspects of government are shut down, but it does put a LOT of ordinary government workers in a very considerable mess. nd it boils down to the sorts of policy decisions being the President's, but paying for it bringvthe House's .... while the budget, thst the House controls, cwn effectively be blocked by the Pres just refusing to sign it.

I hate to say it but it's .... ummmm .... a Mexican (wall) stand-off.

[ik9000]

I hate to say it but it's .... ummmm .... a Mexican (wall) stand-off.

Wall of failure:



Taken slightly out of context from a short but good article here: https://marketoonist.com/2010/11/wall-of-failure.html

Worth a read, but for different reasons than the thread so apologies for the tangent.

Now I'm off to listen to Elbow to scratch the obvious ear worm.