HS2 - knife edge of continuation or not.. but still countryside torn up

[Top_gun]

Again, true of any public building project, in most areas of the country and certainly those already mentioned. The government has also claimed that HS2 will generate benefits of £2.50 for every £1 spent on it. I assume you find that just as credible as their claims for Crossrails projected income?

I wish you stop spreading out of date information like HS2 will generate benefits of £2.50 for every £1 spent as this information is pre 2013. Now that HS2 spending has spiralled out of control then the revised figure should be HS2 will generate benefits of £2.50 for every £3 spent - not looking good value, is it now?. That's assuming that the initial statement was credible which seems rather unlikely due to inflated claims.

[Top_gun]

Maybe it would be if we put the people who did that garden bridge over the Thames in charge. We must already be getting a good return on that project, right?

You mean this clown:



He's already in charge.

[peterb]

Section 106s, CILs, Business rates, taxations from a growing population in the form income tax, stamp duty, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if HMT is making money from this.

Also, Crossrail has a projected income of between £190 to 200m a year. The project is hardly a drain public finances like HS2.

To say nothing about the VAT and income tax that we all pay, whoever we live.

Business rates don’t go the the treasury, they go to the local authority.

Cross rail is being paid for by central government, as would HS2.

It’s a pity HS2 construction doesn’t start in the north to give the benefits to Leeds/Manchester/Liverpool befor heading further South to Birmingham, although one of the objectives is to link to HS1 which makes for faster journeys to Europe.

[spacein_vader]

I wish you stop spreading out of date information like HS2 will generate benefits of £2.50 for every £1 spent as this information is pre 2013. Now that HS2 spending has spiralled out of control then the revised figure should be HS2 will generate benefits of £2.50 for every £3 spent - not looking good value, is it now?. That's assuming that the initial statement was credible which seems rather unlikely due to inflated claims.

You missed my point. The above claim (£2.50 for each £1 spent from HS2,) is clearly woefully inaccurate. What gives you confidence that the claims for Crossrail making money aren't similarly so?

[Top_gun]

To say nothing about the VAT and income tax that we all pay, whoever we live.

Business rates don’t go the the treasury, they go to the local authority.

Cross rail is being paid for by central government, as would HS2.

It’s a pity HS2 construction doesn’t start in the north to give the benefits to Leeds/Manchester/Liverpool befor heading further South to Birmingham, although one of the objectives is to link to HS1 which makes for faster journeys to Europe.

So tell me, you are not aware that the Mayor introduced a 2p supplement to business rates in April 2010 as a way to raise money to pay for Crossrail. A sum of £6.6bn was raised in conjunction with the Mayor's CIL.

HS1 & HS2 do not link up. HS1 starts from St Pancras while HS2 terminates in Euston station.

[rob4001]

The bullet train story very interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3LLgzO_PrI&t=593s

[peterb]

St Pancras and Euston are adjacent to each other. However the proposed link is north of St Pancras.

http://www.thehs2.com/phase1/locatio...link/index.php. Whether or not that link will be built is a moot point, but that was the intention.

The business rate may be contributing to cross rail , but the majority is paid is paid from central government.

Business rates are also tax deductible, so the treasury is partially subsidising that as well, and the remainder will be pSsed on as an overhead to be paid for ultimately by the customer, wherever they live. The majority of customers may be Londoners, but not all, and not all of those will be cross rail users.

I’m not at all against crossrail, I’m in favour of these big infrastructure projects that provide employment, and economic benefits, which includes HS2.

[Butcher]

No point arguing this, if it's not London you might as well burn the money. I mean have you seen the place? The streets are paved with gold there's so much money in London infrastructure.

[Top_gun]

St Pancras and Euston are adjacent to each other. However the proposed link is north of St Pancras.

No it is not. Kings Cross is adjacent to St Pancras.

HS2 is a national infrastructure project so the likes of TfL won't get involved. All infrastructure projects in London are self-financing and neutral spending to the Treasury figures. I think what London needs to do next is to reformulate the Barnett formula so that we can spend even more on our infrastructure. Other regions simply need to live within their means and not sponge off London as they are doing now.

No point arguing this, if it's not London you might as well burn the money. I mean have you seen the place? The streets are paved with gold there's so much money in London infrastructure.

Of course our streets are paved in gold. This is due to the pots of gold given by Treasury.

London thrives because there are so few Tory MPs.

[Top_gun]

You missed my point. The above claim (£2.50 for each £1 spent from HS2,) is clearly woefully inaccurate. What gives you confidence that the claims for Crossrail making money aren't similarly so?

Your point wasn't articulated well in that particular post. Anyway, TfL is usually spot on with their finances in my experience over a number of years. What exactly is yours? Anyway, DfT doesn't have the same reassurance due to various scandals and HS2 hasn't be blessed with transparent info either.

[peterb]

No it is not. Kings Cross is adjacent to St Pancras.

HS2 is a national infrastructure project so the likes of TfL won't get involved. All infrastructure projects in London are self-financing and neutral spending to the Treasury figures. I think what London needs to do next is to reformulate the Barnett formula so that we can spend even more on our infrastructure. Other regions simply need to live within their means and not sponge off London as they are doing now.

I stand corrected re-Kings cross - of course Euston is a bit further up the road.

However there isa plan (as I posted) to link the two in the tunnels just North of the two stations. (Euston and Kings X)

[Top_gun]

I stand corrected re-Kings cross - of course Euston is a bit further up the road.

However there isa plan (as I posted) to link the two in the tunnels just North of the two stations. (Euston and Kings X)

Looks like you are piecing together out of date information to make a credible case for HS2.

There will be no link between the two lines, HS1 & HS2, as described in your post. Still no credible case for HS2, I see!

[Butcher]

HS2 is a national infrastructure project so the likes of TfL won't get involved. All infrastructure projects in London are self-financing and neutral spending to the Treasury figures. I think what London needs to do next is to reformulate the Barnett formula so that we can spend even more on our infrastructure. Other regions simply need to live within their means and not sponge off London as they are doing now.

Of course our streets are paved in gold. This is due to the pots of gold given by Treasury.

London thrives because there are so few Tory MPs.

I can't tell if this post is parody or not at this point.

[Top_gun]

I can't tell if this post is parody or not at this point.

You've only got yourself to blame after providing nothing of serious discussion.

[Butcher]

You've only got yourself to blame after providing nothing of serious discussion.

Given you just ignore anything serious, why bother?

[Zak33]

Q - Is there a chance, of any size, that HS2 might be cancelled
A- Yes, according to th Government's own website.

So... lets not destroy the natural habitat that makes GB so beautiful, until we actually have to.
If those trees and hedges DO need removing in the next few years, because HS2 gets re approved, then crack on.

But until then, don't spend the money or the resources, the fossil fuels of the diggers and the chainsaws, doing something that might never need doing.