Water at work... the saga continues

[philehidiot]

So I told them they had a couple of weeks to sort it. It hasn't happened and all we have is a pipe. So I report them to the HSE. Who get back to me and say that under the Health and Safety at Work act 1974 they see no risk to anyone and I should contact the EPA.

I'm tempted to point out that we have people with cardiovascular disease in the department, we have staff with kidney issues (me), liver issues (someone else who requires high fluid intake) and maybe send them a picture of my swollen ankles and heat rash. Those people with cardiovascular disease on diuretics and vasodilating agents do rather need drinking water in hot weather.

I was tempted to ask how they reconcile "no risk" with the provisions of the Workplace Regs 1992 and if a lack of drinking water isn't a risk, why exactly are we sending money to UNICEF to buy those fancy hand pumps?

Unfortunately, I am a prick when prodded and I expect they are just avoiding any action for political reasons. I expect if I poke them they'll just get all defensive.

I tried the union but they are unmanned at 0930 on a Tuesday because no one wants them during working hours. I'm unsure what I pay them for.

The union is my next port of call. All I want is a provision of drinking water that isn't boiled and treated with masses of chemicals to kill the bugs from the dead pigions whilst they prat about trying to get a charity to buy something to put on the end of the pipe for them.

If anyone has any ideas on how I might get someone to actually do something, I'd appreciate it.

Right now the best I've been able to do is make one of those silly boxes with a switch on it. Turn it on and an arm pops out of the box and turns itself off. I called it the Health and Safety Executive. I also strapped a hamster drinking bottle to the wall and labelled it "staff drinking water". When people took the mick, I took it down, replaced it with a urine bottle (labelled "staff drinking water only") with a note about how we couldn't be trusted to be sensible with our drinking water and so now had to make do with a urine bottle and not to abuse the privilege.

[blueball]

Sadly, I think you may have to become a "whistleblower" to get anything out of these idiots.

Me: Ex NHS Grade 7
Wife: NHS grade 3

[philehidiot]

Sadly, I think you may have to become a "whistleblower" to get anything out of these idiots.

Me: Ex NHS Grade 7
Wife: NHS grade 3

That's a surefire way to get fired and blacklisted. I'll be writing to HSE and asking what the hell they think they're on about. I'll also see if the union actually turn up for work occasionally or solely write annoying emails about how Corbyn is amazing, starting with the phrase "My Dudes".

That or wait until someone collapses and smashes their skull open, sue the Trust and also the HSE for inaction. They can then share it with the rest of us.

Or.... actually.... "the best way to get management excited about a disaster plan is to set fire to the buidling over the road". Maybe I need to find where this has already happened and maybe leave the article lying around.

[TeePee]

The point of being a 'whistleblower' is that you're protected. After you're that guy, you could have a dump on your bosses desk and not get fired...

[philehidiot]

The point of being a 'whistleblower' is that you're protected. After you're that guy, you could have a dump on your bosses desk and not get fired...

On the outside, yes. In practice being a whistleblower means you can't get a job anywhere else. They may not be able to fire you for speaking up but they WILL find some way of doing it and then no one else will take you on as you might have the temerity to stand up for what is right. There are many documented cases like this in my line of work. It's depressing.

[blueball]

On the outside, yes. In practice being a whistleblower means you can't get a job anywhere else. They may not be able to fire you for speaking up but they WILL find some way of doing it and then no one else will take you on as you might have the temerity to stand up for what is right. There are many documented cases like this in my line of work. It's depressing.

Which is illegal!

[peterb]

Which is illegal!

It is, but if you were an employer with two equally qualified candidates, but one is a known whistleblower, it wouldn’t be difficult to find a ‘legitimate’ reason for excluding the whistleblower, and that could be difficult to challenge.

It isn’t right or fair, but that is often the reality

[ik9000]

try contacting public health england?

[Zak33]

what was the response to the regulations on Drinking Water at work then?

https://worksmart.org.uk/health-advi...drinking-water

Does my employer have to provide drinking water?

Yes. There's a clear duty on employers to provide drinking water at work, under the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992. The Regulations state that an "adequate supply of wholesome drinking water" must be provided, and that it be readily available at suitable and clearly marked places. This could be provided either with a supply of suitable cups, or as a drinking fountain.

[badass]

The point of being a 'whistleblower' is that you're protected. After you're that guy, you could have a dump on your bosses desk and not get fired...

On the outside, yes. In practice being a whistleblower means you can't get a job anywhere else. They may not be able to fire you for speaking up but they WILL find some way of doing it and then no one else will take you on as you might have the temerity to stand up for what is right. There are many documented cases like this in my line of work. It's depressing.

Which is illegal!

Those from outside the NHS do not understand at all how it works. Legal requirements are routinely ignored. Particularly around whistleblowers.

I know from experience of many.

Family member 1: NHS Grade 8
Family Member 2: Registrar, nearly qualified as a consultant
Family Member 3: NHS Grade 3
Family Member 4: Ex GP, was on board of what was then the Primary Care Trust
I could fill the rest of the screen with Friends who work for (or have worked for) the NHS at most levels. The organisation is simply not fit for purpose and has not been for at least 20 years - probably longer.

To be a whistleblower in the NHS is to decide your NHS career is over. Since the NHS has a near total monopoly on certain types of job, leaving the NHS means leaving your vocation permanently.

We can't have a grown up conversation about the NHS in this country because it's a religion and thus cannot ever be criticised.

[badass]

It is, but if you were an employer with two equally qualified candidates, but one is a known whistleblower, it wouldn’t be difficult to find a ‘legitimate’ reason for excluding the whistleblower, and that could be difficult to challenge.

It isn’t right or fair, but that is often the reality

It's not even that subtle. You get bullied out of any job you do get and ignored on any shortlists.

[philehidiot]

On the upside, a charity is buying the thing to go on the end of the pipe.

The following is my experience as a patient. I have a habit of trying to die very few months and so I'm a frequent flyer....

As for criticising the NHS, it is beyond critique and beyond political reform. It has been tried by people who thought they could understand the monster and they made it worse. I've been a patient repeatedly admitted with life threatening conditions over the past few years and my experience of how bad the service has got is telling of the entire thing:

1) Maybe three or four years ago: Ill at home, acutely unwell, GP came out and administered the "not dying" stuff and then got me an ambulance which took me into resus. 20 minutes in ED and then up to a ward where treatment was flawless.

2) Maybe 18 months / 2 years ago. Ill at home, acutely unwell, ambulance came (refused to move me and had to wait for an emergency responder to come). 20 hours on a trolley in the ED before being moved up to a ward. They forgot my meds. The ones I was there to get to not die. This was due to too many patients and not enough staff combined with an arrest distracting people.

3) Fairly recently. Acutely unwell at home. Phoned 111 (I can't think straight to diagnose myself when I'm this ill and gave up trying a long time ago) and a GP on the phone said "get to A&E within an hour or I'm sending an ambulance". No GP to come round or anything, phone only job. Into the ED which was packed. They turned part of the ED into a ward by putting some beds in it and screens up and started meds. After a long, long time there watching the staff lose the will to live, found a bed in a ward which had the bed against the wall and just enough space to sidestep around the side. I was next to a drug addict. I am on strong opiates. There was a guy put in the open ward with 'flu. I have a supressed immune system. Tamiflu is fun. After two days of IV antibiotics and other glorious hell I went to the nurses station and told them they could have my bed back because I couldn't tolerate anymore. Did I mention they took my pain meds off me and then ran out and couldn't get anymore? Nor would they give me the ones I'd given them to store. A whole day with no pain meds. It's lucky I had two back up stashes hidden away which I wasn't telling them about.

This degredation in acute care follows the trend of doctors and nurses bailing out of acute medicine. Which makes it harder and more people bail. Repeat. The system is knackered but it is political suicide to do anything to try and fix it or even be vocal about the problems. So it'll keep going until something breaks badly. Then we'll HAVE to fix it but by then all the staff we need will have vanished into other careers, taken early retirement, gone part time or gone abroad. Survival at the moment is only because we are letting other countries do the training and then poach their staff. I spoke to a Polish nurse who was treating me and she thought she was going to come to this amazing, technological advanced heaven. She was bitterly disappointed. I think she expected air conditioning or something.