Brexiteer - is it an insult?

[Saracen999]

I really like to know how the moderators thought the word 'Brexiteer' is an insulting word. I mean a soldier who fires a musket is called a musketeer. This is similar to a Brexit person wanting to leave hence called Brexiteer. Where on earth is that name calling?

Are we going to be barred from using the word 'Leaver' as well? Good grief.

ETA: As for the word Remoaner, yes it is designed to be disparaging. It is a word where any reasonable minded Remainer needs to voice their concerns.

The point you're missing is that when you use a term like that, it's not jiw you see it, or meant it, it's how the person it's aimed at sees it as a result of the context in which it's used elsewhere. In exactly the same way, from my perspective, Remoaner is just a concatenation designed to signify a person that voted Remain and can't or won't accept that they lost the referendum.

I can see how Remoaner could be perceived a mildly disparaging, but if you'd been on tne receiving end of the litany of insults I have, usually couched as &%*€#% Brexiteer, and accompanied by accusations of being a far-right nutjob, a racist, an idiot that doesn't understand the issues, someone that wants to close the door, an isolationist, i migeant-hater, etc, and the barrage of insult and intimidation no doubt designed to belittle, maybe you would understand.

In an ideal world, or forum, neither term would be used. Yet, you continue, and add in claims of how it undermines democracy, is bullying, etc, in the same sentence or post.

How this comes across is that Remoaner is unacceptable because you find it offensive, but Brexiteer is fine because, despite having had it explained, you either don't understand it, or don't agree. Of course you don't, if you haven't been on the receiving end.

And it's not just Brexiteer. That's just the latest incarnation of the cascade of insults anyone with a eurosceptic viewpoint has had for years, decades even, from some europhiles.

And .... I'm not sure any mods do find it offensive, or Remoaner either for that matter. But speaking with a past hat on, if it erupts like it has they have to look at both sides.

My suggestion is that if we can't agree that perceived offense depends on perception, which is coloured ny experience, how about avoiding BOTH.

It seems daft, over something pathetic, but the solution is obvious. Use Leaver and Remainer, and try to stick to respectful arguments, not borderline attacks which, if not intended to provoke, certainly have that effect.

[Top_gun]

Another point that has cropped up in my mind is that some people becomes hypersensitive to remarks in order to stifle discourse. I take a dim view to this underhanded tactic.

[Lanky123]

I wouldn't consider any of the brex- or rem- prefixed terms to be sufficiently insulting that they would need to be moderated. I will say, however, that if a post contains unnecessary or excessive use of such terms I will mentally downgrade the way I view the post. It's a similar thing to when a post contains no punctuation or regularly uses ALLCAPS.

It's not that the post is immediately ignored, but experience suggests that it is less likely to contain a well researched, impartial and cogent argument. In particular, pejorative terms and ALLCAPS both tend to indicate an emotional investment in an argument and possibly a level of insecurity which leads to insults or emphasis being used as cover for a lack of logic or references. In the specific case of brexit discussions, I would argue that excessive or unnecessary use of even the descriptive brexiter/remainer terms (of course usage is warranted in some posts) indicates that the poster might be somewhat caught up in the "them vs us" narrative which seems to be prevalent on both sides.

[Mr_Jon]

It's all about the cone-text



Reminds me (the argument, not the picture) of the debate surrounding Spurs fans use of the "y-word" which occurred a few years ago. I think even the legal line after the met was involved was it's in the context - i.e. Spurs fan were okay to chant "yid-army", whereas if the dirty-bummed Chavski lot tried it they'd be for the high jump. If it's used with the intent to mock or belittle, then yes, it's an (utterly pathetic attempt at an) insult.

[badass]

Personally, I'd need a fifth voting option, along the lines of 'I have given up caring'.

I was tempted but I didn't because I expected almost everyone to vote that way. I wanted people to get off the fence. A hypocritical desire as I haven't voted as I don't regard the term as an insult and think we're now screwed whether Britain leaves with or without a deal or revokes article 50.

I also found it completely ridiculous that some were suggesting brexiteer as as much of an insult as remoaner in another thread. One that has the usual brextremists and remaniacs poisoning the discussion for the more moderate individuals on either side of the fence.

[kalniel]

Why does this poll go on until the 20th??! Surely we should be done by then. We need clarity! Do or die!! ;P

[Corky34]

Another point that has cropped up in my mind is that some people becomes hypersensitive to remarks in order to stifle discourse. I take a dim view to this underhanded tactic.

Very true and so do i, however people who do that are normally quickly exposed (IMO) as typically if you show contrition they'll refuse to accept it or find something else to take offense at, as you say for them it's about shutting down debate so typically they'll refuse to let it go.

[TeePee]

Another point that has cropped up in my mind is that some people becomes hypersensitive to remarks in order to stifle discourse. I take a dim view to this underhanded tactic.

This has become a very common tactic among those who wish to remain in the EU and like to complain constantly.

[AGTDenton]

I hate the term Brexit. But I don't find it insulting

[Saracen999]

.... and think we're now screwed whether Britain leaves with or without a deal or revokes article 50.

.....

Now that, I utterly agree with. Whatever happens, the divisions aren't going away any time soon. But then, they were there before the referendum too, but just not as openly visible. The roots of this go back decades, and the aftermath, whatever happens, will probably last a similar length of time. Oh joy.

[Saracen999]

....

I also found it completely ridiculous that some were suggesting brexiteer as as much of an insult as remoaner in another thread. One that has the usual brextremists and remaniacs poisoning the discussion for the more moderate individuals on either side of the fence.

The answer to that is simple. When side A uses a term side B considers loaded and objects, but thinks it's fine for their side, side B, to use a term side A considers loaded.

It's the double-standards issue, sauce-for-the-goose issue.

Neither side should do it, but for one side to think it's outrageous if the other does it but it's fine when they do it themselves, is hypocrisy.

[Saracen999]

....

I also found it completely ridiculous that some were suggesting brexiteer as as much of an insult as remoaner in another thread. One that has the usual brextremists and remaniacs poisoning the discussion for the more moderate individuals on either side of the fence.

As I keep saying, it's about context. Here's the specific example of context I find insulting.

The Brexiteers have undermined the fabric of democracy, bullied their way, and will have divide the nation for generations to come.

So, if I'm called a Brexiteer because I support Leave, and then Brexiteers are accused if all that, how is that not insulting?

The subsequent explanation seems to be about specific politicians and their acts, but then a handful of politicians are not what this forum has just agreed is meant by Brexiteer, which seems to be anyone supporting and/or voting Leave. Are we all bullying? Somehow undermining democracy, etc?

No.

And that is an eample of how an otherwise innocuous term picks up insulting connotations - it's in context, it's in how it's been used, at me, time and again, with connotations as nasty as racist, wanting to kick immigrants out, close the doors, and all sorts of drivel.

Having been on the receiving end of countless such accusations, in recent years often accompanied by a direct reverence to Brexiteer, I find it a bit much to be told "moaning" is insulting.

Either allow both terms (common sense) or don't allow either.

[The Hand]

Michael Gove was in the news for defending Jeremy Clarkson use of the N word.

The irony is Jeremy Clarkson supports Remain.

I consider Brexiteers to be advocates for Brexit like Farage, Rees-Mogg/ERG etc. Certainly zealous in their cause I wouldn't call it an insult personally, but I wouldn't call the vast majority of 17.4 million leave voters Brexiteers, just Leave voters.. Their reasons for voting Leave are as varied as Remain voters are voting remain.

[philehidiot]

Brexiteer? Why would anyone think calling someone a biscuit pirate is an insult? It sounds bleedin' awesome.

ARRRRR, I shall pillage all your tasty snacks!

I'm quite tired and possibly delirious. If anyone needs me, I'll be in the keyboard.
*falls asleep, Windows dings in protest*