So .... should BBB4B?

[Saracen999]

Obviously, should Big Ben Bong for Brexit?

And hopefully, we can avoid discussing whether we should Brexit or not, as that horse has bolted.

My view?

it's a major change for the UK, and whether we each like it or not, it's happening, so we all ought to make the best of it, agree or not.

BUT .... there's no need to be triumphalist about what is still a highly divisive and charged issue.

So, the moment of change should be marked, and we shouldn't be seen to be ashamed of it either.

But Big Ben Bonging?

DILLIGAS.

Do I Look Like I Give A Stuff?

Just play a bong recording over the audik system, ffs. Or not. Whatever.


PS. I heard one tory claim the rest of the world expects bongs?

Excuse me?

From my conversations with family and friends, the Rest of the World barely gives a .... Stuff ... over Brexit, except to the extent that their countries may gain or lose, and are uniformly and militantly indifferent as to whether it's marked by Big Ben Bonging, or not. It's more "you guys still going on about that", meaning Brexit, than the presence or absence of anything bonging.

PPS - Again, can we please not rehash the last 3 years argument over B. There's other threads for that.

This is about bonging. Which, by the way, is not a sentence I ever expected to use.

[adidan]

Seems like just another farce people have to take sides over. We've been living in a weird Carry On movie for some time.

But yeah, don't care, why not have an ageing piece of history propped up by scaffolding be our symbol for leaving. Seems ideal.

Edit: it does strike me though that it seems to be those that are getting their way that are the ones still currently the most vocally annoyed, grumpy and angry. This time about Big Ben. Very odd.

[Spud1]

Nope, I don't think it should - it would be a huge insult to half of the country imo.

I've no desire to celebrate or mark this disaster in any way whatsoever. The closest I may get is a different kind of "bonging" to help forget about this whole sorry affair

p.s. it's not over until it's over anyway, there is a LONG way to go before "brexit" actually happens in anything but name, if it ever does.

[sammyc]

Just play a bong recording over the audik system, ffs. Or not. Whatever.

Gladys Pugh on the xylophone.

[Saracen999]

....

p.s. it's not over until it's over anyway, there is a LONG way to go before "brexit" actually happens in anything but name, if it ever does.

Not sure quite how you get to that. The deadline is less than two weeks is no name-only. By the TEU itself, once art.50 is invoked, the only thing stopping it will be the leaving natiin revoking it. Somehow I don't see the current government revoking in the next 12 days.

Short of that, only a rwquest from us and unanimous EU agreeement can even extend the art.50 deadline.

So, if the Withdrawal Agreement Bill (WAB) goes through, we still exit, legally, in 12 days but have until year-end to sort out "the future relationship". And by "exit, legally" I mean by Treaty, we are no longer bound by or party to the TEU, and are therefore out. Any continued participation in and obeyance of EU rules is only where tbe WAB stipulates it, and even then, only for 11 months with any extension if tbat statute-barred. I can't see any realistic way of stopping that i 12 days.

Even if the Lords try to block or amend (with unwanted amendments) the government has probably the clearest ever mandate, given both the recent manifesto and the central nature of "get Brexit done" to the campaign, to invoke the Parliament Act and override the Lords.

Which suggests any "name only" aspects come down to what "future relationships" can be agreed in the 11 month transition period. Given that both the UK and EU are currently chest-besting and posturing ahead of that, I'm seing nothing in the government's stance suggssting "name only" in any form.

The EU is saying the degree of frictionlessness depends on degree of alignment, and the government are saying no to single market, no to customs union, and if it comes tk friction or aljgnment, we'll take friction.

It seems to me that, first, we'll be out, both in legal effect and participation in EU bodies unless it's via a side-deal .... for which there is ample precedent by other non-members. The ability is there, if the will exists on both sides. And second, that our relationship going forward is likely to be that of a friendly, local and significanr-sized nation, that is sovereign and independent. There is no reason why a good but mutually respectful FTA can't be agreed, if both sides want it.

Our biggest single issue now is convincing the EU we aren't trying to have our cake and eat it. A clear rejection of both single-market and customs union, along with no trade off of alignment for lower "friction" should make that clear.

A wide-ranging FTA in 11 months? Can't see it. But a basic one of the core needs of both sides should be. And other bits can be bolted on over time.

But whatever the FTA outcome, Brexit on 31st is all but certain, and re-entry would require an application on the same basis as any other applicant. No specjal favours or specjal status.

[[GSV]Trig]

As I read it, and I admit that I might be slightly undereducated at this point, the idea is that Big Ben bongs at 2300h, as this would be 0000h EU time which would be the time we would be leaving the EU, at which point I'm thinking that Big Ben would "bong" any way at its an hour marker, where Big Ben would "bong" anyway...

Not sure wtf the fuss is about....

[adidan]

As I read it, and I admit that I might be slightly undereducated at this point, the idea is that Big Ben bongs at 2300h, as this would be 0000h EU time which would be the time we would be leaving the EU, at which point I'm thinking that Big Ben would "bong" any way at its an hour marker, where Big Ben would "bong" anyway...

Not sure wtf the fuss is about....

It's not bonging at all at the moment during renovations.

Seriously though, this country is bothered about bonging or not - we're a bunch of naval gazing children. Pathetic really.

[Output]

Nope.

Even the whole projection onto Number 10 seems like an over the top thing to me (and a waste of money), arranging for Big Ben to chime would just be even more so.

The point was supposedly to "Get Brexit Done". Nobody said there had to be any fanfare.

[Spreadie]

Oh, ffs.

We didn't get Brexit done, we just got Brexit started.

I'm going to need a Bong to get through the next ten years of this crap.

[kalniel]

Surely this is an obvious piece of distraction meant to take our eye from something they want less heat on. Sussexes? Chancellor ruling out alignment with EU? Peerages? Something else?

[adidan]

Surely this is an obvious piece of distraction meant to take our eye from something they want less heat on. Sussexes? Chancellor ruling out alignment with EU? Peerages? Something else?

Still waiting on that Russia report as well

[Saracen999]

....

Even the whole projection onto Number 10 seems like an over the top thing to me (and a waste of money), arranging for Big Ben to chime would just be even more so.

....

Up to a point, I agree. But this is the kind of thing countries have a habit of ..... marking. What, I wonder, gets spent on New Year's Eve celebrations? And tbat just marks something that comes around one a year, inevitably.

I wouldn't be surprised if some people claimed, in the event of no marking of the event, that they were just trying to slip it past, hoping nobody would notice (as if we hadn't had about half a decade of ferocious argument.

It's also worth pointing out that Ted Heath spent about £4m (at todays prices) making us going in to the EC, an event he managed to do without even bothering to ask the people. Some sort of marking of the lesving is worth it just to blow an enormous raspberry on his general direction.

[Saracen999]

Oh, ffs.

We didn't get Brexit done, we just got Brexit started.

I'm going to need a Bong to get through the next ten years of this crap.

Now that I entirely agree with.

Nobody should confuse leaving the EU with getting Brexit "done." We will have left in a few days, but the subject is far from over, and is highly unlikely to be so by year's end. Maybe not decade's end.

I'm just waiting for the "rejoin" campaign to start. Won't that be fun. Anyone know of a good manufacturer of survivalist shelters? I want a big one, well-equipped and stocked so I can go hide in it and come out after all the shouting.

[Spud1]

Not sure quite how you get to that. <snip>

Spreadie put it pretty well I thought

My point was that on the 31st, nothing will practically change. Everything continues as before, and we have many months of negotiation to go before anything will actually change - so it's not done, not in the slightest. Otherwise i'd probably be winging a lot more and be a lot more worried about it If they are *really* going to ring the bongs for Brexit then it should be when the deal is done and dusted and ready to go imo, not right at the start of a long negotiating period.

The huge wound caused by this in society won't be healed either, if anything it will just get worse or stay the same. I would welcome a rejoin campaign if Labour were to spearhead it - i'd love to see them lose the next election too

edit: Regards survival shelters, I can help you out - started a sideline in prepping goodies a few months ago , need a customer to take on a shelter building project ;D As long as you have the land to fit a shipping container you're good....

[adidan]

I'm just waiting for the "rejoin" campaign to start.

Oh I think i'll pencil that in for February 1st, it really wouldn't surprise me.

May as well keep this thing going as it's such fun

[Output]

Up to a point, I agree. But this is the kind of thing countries have a habit of ..... marking. What, I wonder, gets spent on New Year's Eve celebrations? And tbat just marks something that comes around one a year, inevitably.

...

It's also worth pointing out that Ted Heath spent about £4m (at todays prices) making us going in to the EC, an event he managed to do without even bothering to ask the people. Some sort of marking of the lesving is worth it just to blow an enormous raspberry on his general direction.

Fair point. I guess I'm just annoyed by all the arguing of Brexit for the past few years and would have preferred for it to be marked without any fanfare to compensate for that.

Oh, ffs.

We didn't get Brexit done, we just got Brexit started.

I'm going to need a Bong to get through the next ten years of this crap.

Now that I entirely agree with.

Nobody should confuse leaving the EU with getting Brexit "done." We will have left in a few days, but the subject is far from over, and is highly unlikely to be so by year's end. Maybe not decade's end.

Absolutely. I am under no illusions that it in any way means Brexit is "done" for a long time yet.

Leaving on the 31st is however how I interpreted the often-repeated statement as how those in Government saying it were trying to portray it as being "done".

I'm just waiting for the "rejoin" campaign to start. Won't that be fun. Anyone know of a good manufacturer of survivalist shelters? I want a big one, well-equipped and stocked so I can go hide in it and come out after all the shouting.

That will likely start the very moment the country is officially out. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has it scheduled in an application to automatically publish a tweet or article or something at that point.