View Poll Results: Would you install the app?

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  • Yes, obviously. Who wouldn't?

    5 13.16%
  • No chance, no way.

    16 42.11%
  • Maybe. Need to know more about it.

    15 39.47%
  • What app?

    2 5.26%
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Thread: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

  1. #1
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    NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    So this proposed NHS app .... would you voluntarily install/use it?

    Suppedly, it requires 80% of smartphone users to install to be fully effective? Would you?
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    My views on privacy are no secret, and my gut says "no way" BUT this is a bit different.

    I voted "Maybe".

    I'd want to know more about what it does (beyond low-power Bluetooth, etc), what data it scrapes from the phone (if any), where and for how long data is stored, what is stored, and so long.

    I'm sceptical, obviously, but given the situation I'd certainly give the case a fair hearing.

    How about you?
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    no. Things like this will be well meaning but poorly implemented due to being rushed-through and lack of proper oversight etc. Privacy nightmare. no thanks.

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    One of my concerns would be "mission-creep".

    It sort-of reminds me of "Ooh, terrorist incident, we need mandatory ID cards"
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    Yea, I'm sort of with Saracen, in that I'd like to know more and would consider if it's actually useful and non-intrusive.

    But, I know that, whatever the theory is, the practical will be as ik9000 says, it's Government, it will always be majorly flawed, insecure and go wrong. No doubt developed by the usual pack of overpaid, lax contractors that inevitably get the jobs.

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    I have chosen maybe and my reasons for that are if it allows me to get out of my house sooner then yes I may install the app but if it does nothing to get me at the house sooner then no I won't be installing it.
    Jon

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    option a) the government could do a proper job of sourcing testing and contact tracing similar to how singapore and s.korea did it
    option b) the government could sit on its backside, do a half baked nothing, cock everything up and then go "ooh app" shiny! That'll fix it, as if we're some kitten easily distracted by a red laser.

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    In S.Korea the app is installed on the phones of people entering the country who have tested negative. They are sent home and told to stay indoors for 2 weeks, they use the app two times a day to update the authorities of their status. When they leave the home the app rings an alarm. If they forget to, someone calls them up to ask why they didn't login into app to give them status update on their condition. The government gets their consent.

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    it's a bit different to this app which is essentially big brother knowing where you, and ideally everyone else, has been at any time, all the time. It's horrificly invasive and they have no right to that level of information IMO and there is no way I will be voluntarily handing it over.

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by pp05 View Post
    In S.Korea the app is installed on the phones of people entering the country who have tested negative. They are sent home and told to stay indoors for 2 weeks, they use the app two times a day to update the authorities of their status. When they leave the home the app rings an alarm. If they forget to, someone calls them up to ask why they didn't login into app to give them status update on their condition. The government gets their consent.
    Interesting. But surely that's a bit different in usage? It seems to be government saying there's a 14-day mandatory isolation to those arriving in the country. I seem to remember a radio report about Australia effecting sticking all arrivals, citizens and otherwise, in a hotel for 14 days for a mandatory quarantine. The difference (if's it's correct) between Aus and SK is the enforcement machanism.

    One thing that interests me is the notion of 80% take-up.

    I mean, I know I'm a tad privacy-centric, but even trying to discount that, I cannot conceive of getting anywhere close to 80%.

    I suspect you'd struggle to hit 80%, given both public cynicism and apathy in others, if you offered free money.

    80%? Not a prayer, IMHO.

    25%? Maybe. But optimistic.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    I'm hugely torn on this. Usually I'd be with Saracen, but having been (very peripherally,) been involved in the discussions around the how's, where's and whys of the app I'm not sure.

    On the one hand it means the government knowing exactly where I am, which makes me uncomfortable. The flip side is that if you own a smartphone then Google/apple already know this to a high degree of accuracy, and the phone network (and by extension law enforcement if they ask,) to a lower degree of accuracy.

    If it would genuinely make a difference to the lives saved and pressure on the NHS and if it only sends location/proximity data then I think I'd be willing to. For me the code would need to be open source and ideally would allow you to view what was sent. Hopefully just coordinates and MAC addresses of devices you've been in proximity to.

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    On a side note, if they said and of course I don't expect them to but if they said you need the app and you would be able to go out then I expect more people would install it. However some people like myself have 2 phones. The privacy conscious could just install it on the phone that sits in the drawer and leave it there. Defeating the purpose of the app and giving false results.

    The way Google know where you are is by having the location tracking thing turned on, its how it gets it data for google maps etc, if its turned off tracking stops, mine is always off.
    Jon

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    It's a hard pass from me.

    It is very difficult to release a secure application and system in that time, especially with the sheer volume of data it would need to process.

    For transparency, I've done absolutely no research into the app itself and what data it claims to collect and how it intends to process it. But to be of any use, it will need to capture data that is a concern.

    I think it would be fair to tie the phone app to loosening of restrictions, perhaps that you can be subject to fewer restrictions if you're willing to track your activities, and consequently I could exercise my right not to be included without compromising the system. In that situation I would probably repurpose an old phone with nothing installed on it and a fresh Google account to run the app.

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonj1611 View Post
    On a side note, if they said and of course I don't expect them to but if they said you need the app and you would be able to go out then I expect more people would install it. However some people like myself have 2 phones. The privacy conscious could just install it on the phone that sits in the drawer and leave it there. Defeating the purpose of the app and giving false results.

    The way Google know where you are is by having the location tracking thing turned on, its how it gets it data for google maps etc, if its turned off tracking stops, mine is always off.
    Not quite. From Google's own help pages:

    When Location History is off
    New location information is no longer saved to your Location History.
    Previous activity is not deleted from your Location History. You can manually delete your Location History.
    Your settings for other location services on your device, like Google Location Services and Find My Device, are not changed.
    Some location data may continue to be saved in other settings, like Web & App Activity, as part of your use of other services, like Search and Maps, even after you turn off Location History.

    Bolding mine. Even if you switch them off on all the different panels it still gets your basic location via network connections so they still know broadly where you are.

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    Judging by the (statistically irrelevant) responses so far, it ain't looking good for 80%.

    There have already been some voiced suggesting making this app mandatory. What about that idea?

    And if they do .... quite how?
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: NHS "contact-tracing" app .... would you?

    As mentioned I have 2 phones, I would stick on the phone that stays powered up in the drawer IF it was mandatory.
    Jon

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