Claiming Against and Airline and/or Travel Insurance

[Galant]

Hi Guys!

Hope you're all doing well!

I'm hoping I can borrow a little knowledge and experience from the Hexus clan.

I just returned from a family trip to the USA and it was the worst flight experience of my life.

I booked with American Airlines, online, with a few of their flights operated by Iberia through their 'One World' relationship.

We were delayed a day out of Madrid because of an itinerary changed for which we received no notification. The connection from Madrid to Chicago (via JFK) was changed to a direct flight to Chicago but at an earlier time that was impossible to make (arrival in Madrid at 10:40am, boarding for Chicago was 10:55). Iberia admitted it and put us up overnight in their hotel.

We were also asked to check our cabin bags due to lack of space, which we did.

We lost a hotel booking in Chicago due to the delay, and on arrival in Chicago couldn't find our bags, or anyone from Iberia to help, until, 2 hours later, an AA employee helped us out.

At another hotel we found that my wife's jewelry had been stolen from her cabin bag (we didn't think to remove it before we checked that bag). I also found someone else's stuff in my suitcase, some random cheap items including what looks like plastic suitcase wrap that had been cut. I filed a report with the Chicago police and filed with Iberia but in a day they responded with:

"We have reviewed your case and regret to inform you that we cannot process your request for compensation because your baggage did not present any exterior damage that may have caused the loss of inside contents.

We apologize for any inconveninece you were caused and trust you will have a satisfactory flight next time you fly with us."

This is without mentioning all the stress endured by our family, especially my daughter with an ear infection, running to catch impossible connections.

Then on the return trip, I tried to check in online the night before departure to find our return itinerary had been cancelled. I called American, who were helpful, and found that when Iberia put us on a direct flight to Chicago they didn't cancel the flight to JFK. As such, JFK marked us has having not arrived and checked in and the return flights got cancelled from there.

After an hour and a half on hold, with regular updates from American, they managed to get the flights recreated.

There were also delays out of the USA but we managed to run again and make our connections, and everything went okay until we got to Malaga, and found our two checked bags weren't there. We filed a missing baggage report and drove home. The next day our bags were dropped off in the evening, without further loss.

I've got all the boarding passes, online notifications, booking reservations, a digital copy of the police report for the stolen items, etc.

Our travel insurance states that EU law entitles travelers to compensation for delayed flights and mentions various amounts we might be able to claim for under the insurance.

I'm unsure the best path to pursue.

Should I file with the airline for compensation, the insurance company, or a friend suggested a company the pursue claims for a fee/percentage (between 35% and 50%, from a total of up to €600 per person).

I was thinking the insurance company might be my only recourse for the stolen goods since the airline policy states their not liable for valuable items in checked baggage and I already attempted to file that.

In terms of delayed flights and baggage the 3rd party company might be easiest, at a cost, but I'm wary of things like that.

Does anyone have any experience of recommendations?

And yes, of course, the usual provisos are understood as concerns Hexus not giving official legal advice etc.!

Thanks.

[Jonj1611]

I have no idea at all when it comes to travel issues but my god sounds a complete nightmare!

[Galant]

I have no idea at all when it comes to travel issues but my god sounds a complete nightmare!

It really was. I was so angry on arrival at our first hotel in Illinois. My wife was in tears because the jewelry included two small gifts from our young children, the first two gifts they had bought her. And then some other jewelry I had bought her. Total value was about £450 ish. Not a massive amount to some, but not tiny either, and still nothing compared to the value for her.

Lesson worth learning - never pack anything in a checked bag that you really don't want to lose. It blows my mind that the airports and airlines aren't forced to take responsibility for this sort of thing. All the luggage must travel along known routes and to known areas. Putting up security cameras and requiring responsibility wouldn't be that hard, but if they're not forced to then why would they? My suspicion is that neither the airports nor the airlines want to take ownership and be responsible, so there's just no recourse. Apparently it's common for valuables to go missing...

[Jonj1611]

Completely understandable, I would be mortified. Sentimental value is always worth far more than monetary. #

I can only imagine due to the volume of bags they get they can't have cameras everywhere but I am guessing any thefts must be happening in holding areas for between flights etc. Considering how many years baggage thefts have been happening for, I remember such things back in the 80's, you would have thought something more robust would be in place now.

Saying that money still goes missing from items sent through Royal Mail!

Hope you manage to get it sorted, hopefully someone with at least some knowledge of this will be able to offer some advice

[Jonatron]

Definitely check out the EU flight delay compensation stuff, hopefully you're eligible. I've successfully made a 600 euro claim before.
Insurance I suspect you might not have a lot of luck from claiming valuables in checked baggage. There's probably small print saying you need to keep valuables in hand baggage.

[Galant]

Definitely check out the EU flight delay compensation stuff, hopefully you're eligible. I've successfully made a 600 euro claim before.
Insurance I suspect you might not have a lot of luck from claiming valuables in checked baggage. There's probably small print saying you need to keep valuables in hand baggage.

Sounds like it. From the policy:

Not covered for...

"any loss of, theft of or damage to Valuables
i. left in checked-in baggage, whilst in the custody of a carrier; and/or
ii. packed in baggage left in the baggage hold, or storage area of a carrier; or
iii. left in a left baggage facility, which incudes, but is not limited to, the left baggage storage
area of a hotel or other accommodation supplier; a locked left luggage locker."

[badass]

Sounds like it. From the policy:

Not covered for...

"any loss of, theft of or damage to Valuables
i. left in checked-in baggage, whilst in the custody of a carrier; and/or
ii. packed in baggage left in the baggage hold, or storage area of a carrier; or
iii. left in a left baggage facility, which incudes, but is not limited to, the left baggage storage
area of a hotel or other accommodation supplier; a locked left luggage locker."

If your insurance doesn't cover it, I'd go after the airline. Was everything bought from the UK, airline wise? If so I'd start the process asap. Small claims (claims under £10,000) aren't that hard to deal with, nor are they that expensive.

Check to see what powers the regulator has and how they suggest dealing with an airline. https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/res...e-a-complaint/

[kalniel]

What a horror.

Back in the day it used to be the carrier's responsibility to look after your luggage and you didn't need to prove external damage to claim for loss/damage of items within (travelling with orchestras there was inevitably some instrument damage despite use of hard cases, we always got money back for repairs though, eventually). I guess that goodwill got squeezed out by AA but I'd go to the airline in the first instance there.

Compensation for delays is separate, but rather more straightforward.

[Galant]

Update.

The official EU websites indicate the proper protocol is to file with the airline first, then if their response is non-existent or unsatisfactory escalate with the appropriate regional/national body, and then from there pursue legal action.

See website here - https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...r/index_en.htm

Initially, to my mind, there were multiple issues with the trip and multiple points where I might seek some sort of compensation.

Delayed arrival in Chicago due to itinerary change/impossible connection.
Stolen items from luggage.
Lost hotel reservation due to delay.
Expenses incurred due to delay.
The loss of the return trips due to airline error - which I remedied beforehand and though further delays appeared, we didn't miss any connections.
Delayed baggage on the return trip, found and received one day after getting home.

However, after reviewing airline policies, my travel insurance details, and reading a few articles here and there, it became clearer that many of these were non-starters and it wasn't worth filing for them:

- The stolen items - airline and travel insurance policies state items of value shouldn't be in checked luggage and they won't be responsible.
- The delayed baggage on return - it's seen as an inconvenience when travelling but less so when you're home because it's expected you'll have what you need at home. So you can claim for expenses incurred when trying to make up for the missing luggage, but not for just the inconvenience of having to wait for it at home. (There might be some exception here where delayed baggage at the end of your journey legitimately creates additional costs).
- The annoying but ultimately inconsequential cancelled flights and small delays - I was able to resolve the itinerary issues over the phone before travelling, at no cost, and was able to make all flights.

So, that being the case, I decided to file a claim with Iberia for:
4x delayed arrivals
1x lost reservation due to delayed arrival
1x Small claim for expenses due to missing baggage and the delay on the way out.

I found the appropriate page on the Iberia website but it also created it's own delays. Filing a claim requires entering a ticket number which then went unrecognised and spat out an error. After several attempts to try different numbers or ways of entering the number I spotted that if I clicked to continue on despite the error and a subsequent warning, TWICE, it allowed me to proceed. I had previously chatted with Iberia via Twitter and they mentioned an area where I should just push through any errors. This seems to be the case. <foil hat on>The cynical side of me wonders if this isn't an intentional hurdle that causes less determined potential claimants from filing... <foli hat off>

I filled out the usual entry fields and proceeded to the central part - writing out my claim and attaching proof. There was no text entry window, just the option to attach 3 documents of certain types to a total of 5mb.

This is in the 'Additional Information' section. It felt like there was something missing. 'Additional' seems to imply that the drop down or text entry fields is the essential info and this section is optional or 'additional'. Yet, up to here there really hasn't been any chance to get specific. Drop-downs, in and of themselves, limit you to specific answers, some of which might not feel like they fit your situation. The foil hat could go on again here. There's no guidance about exactly what they want in this form, or what proof is expected. Some people might feel like it's enough to just hit that big 'Submit' button.

Also, 3 attachments was no where near enough for me to provide what I thought was essential proof - original itinerary, photos of actual boarding passes, hotel booking, purchase receipts etc.

I decided to write out my claim, along with photos/screenshots, save it as a PDF and then attach that, so almost everything was in one attachment. Then I used the other two to attach a more complete version of the original itinerary, and one of the hotel reservation confirmation.

So, with that done my claim is submitted, and they now seem to have 2 months to reply, and I can proceed from there.

We'll see how this goes.

One last note, compensation for delayed flights seems to be pretty clear cut in EU law. So if you're dealing with a flight operated by an EU entity and you suffer delays, you should take a look at options.

It apparently doesn't matter who paid for the ticket, it's not a reimbursement (talking about delayed arrivals, not flight cancellations). It's compensation for delay and inconvenience. So if you're a traveller who has suffered that inconvenience, that's what matters.

Length of delay on arrival, and length of trip also factor in.

Here's that Europa website on delays:

"Delay
If your flight is delayed at departure, you have the right to assistance, to reimbursement and a return flight, depending on the duration of the delay and the distance of the flight.

If you arrived at your final destination with a delay of more than 3 hours, you are entitled to compensation, unless the delay was due to extraordinary circumstances. The airline has to prove this by providing, for example, extracts from logbooks or incident reports. The air carrier should give this evidence to the relevant national enforcement body as well as to the passengers concerned in line with national provisions on access to documents."

There are a few fine-print points/details that you should read and be familiar with but I won't paste them here, just visit the site. It reads pretty easily.

Here's the basic table on compensation:

Compensation - delay at arrival

Amount in EUR Distance

€250 1500km or less

€400 More than 1500 km within the EU and all other flights between 1500km and 3500km

€600 More than 3500 km

[Saracen999]

I have no idea at all when it comes to travel issues but my god sounds a complete nightmare!

That, on both grounds .... i.e. nightmare, and "no idea". On the latter, for reasons to long and boring to mention, I haven't travelled abroad for many years and, TBH, this kind of thing doesn't make me inclined to do it. I think I wore out my lifetime airport inclination allwance back in the day, as it felt like I lived in the damn places for a few years. But even though I had some nightmares (and thefts from luggage, so that ain't changed) it was so long ago that anything I did learn couldn't be relied on even if I did remember.

Worst trip - Heathrow to Dayton, Ohio, which started out with Heathrow closed for hours due to a bomb scare, resulting in cancelled flights and a snowball effect from there. Then it went downhill;

Hope you get it all sorted, but I don't envy you the hassle involved in doing so.

[TeePee]

I've made a number of 261 claims with different airlines and they've always paid. I never used a service that keeps a percentage of the settlement.

For delayed baggage in both directions, incidental amounts under $100 will be paid without concern. When my luggage is delayed, I always buy some new clothes and stock up on toothpaste, etc, in order to have a receipt to submit.

You're likely out of luck when it comes to valuables in checked baggage, unfortunately. When they ask you to check the cabin bag, in the US it's common to give you a tag and ask you to leave it by the boarding door. I simply remove the tag and carry on.

[Galant]

Update.
Iberia have responded by email and apologised for the inconvenience saying how customer satisfaction is their highest aim, but in this case the delay was due to circumstances outside their control.

So this is them replying with the only legal 'get out of jail free' card they have. The thing is, they've offered no further explanation of what the circumstances were, not any proof.

I'm not experienced in this sort of thing but I take this to be them hoping I'll just accept what they say, drop it, and move on.

So I'm going to review the recommended second stage options and proceed. I believe I can either escalate to the national/regional organisation or I can ask them for proof, maybe I'll need to do both.

....


[EDIT]

The EU website states:

"If you don't receive a reply from the airline within 2 months or if you are not satisfied with the reply, you can lodge a complaint with the relevant national authority in the country where the incident took place, within a reasonable timeframe. The national authority should provide you with a non-binding legal opinion on how to proceed with your claim."

The footer of the email I received from Iberia states:
"IMPORTANT: For claims made within the scope of application of Law 7/2017 of 2 November and Order TMA/201/2022 of 14 March, if you not satisfied with the resolution proposed by IBERIA, or if you have not received a response within a one (1) month from the date of submission, you may appeal to the national air safety agency (AESA,www.seguridadaerea.gob.es) for alternative dispute resolution (ADR) in accordance with the applicable regulations of the European Union on the protection of air transport users (Reg. (EC) 261/2004 and Reg. (EC) 1107/2006). This procedure expressly EXCLUDES claims for baggage and damages additional to the objective compensation established in the aforementioned regulations or other clauses of the carriage contract. AESA will not admit claims submitted more than one (1) year after submission of the previous claim to IBERIA. The decision adopted by AESA in ADR is binding for IBERIA.

IBERIA L.A.E. S.A. Operadora, Sole-Shareholder Company (hereinafter “Iberia”) with registered address at calle Martínez Villergas 49, 28027 Madrid, Spain, is the data controller.

Your data will be processed to manage and settle requests and claims, according to the contract.

The recipients are companies of IAG Group, to which IBERIA belongs

The user can revoke his/her consent at any time, and exercise all rights of access, to object, data portability, rectification, restrict processing and erasure.

You can read more about the information herein by visiting our [Privacy Policy].

This letter represents our final consideration of your complaint. CEDR, (Centre for effective dispute resolution) is approved by the Civil Aviation Authority to provide dispute resolution services and an independent view of your complaint under the Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) for Consumer Disputes (Competent Authorities and Information) Regulations 2015. Iberia is not signed up to the services of CEDR and is therefore not willing to submit itself to its ADR procedure. You can log your complaint with CAA’s Passenger Advice and Complaints Team (PACT) by completing the online complaint form via the CAA website: www.caa.co.uk/passengercomplaints. Under the subtitle ‘How the CAA can Help’. You will need to click on the link ‘Refer your complaint to us’. You can then access the CAA’s consumer portal where you can submit your complaint to PACT."


The website mentioned in the footer matches the website and email listed in a PDF document on the EU - the AESA.
They have an online filing form in English and Spanish. The first page states:

"NOTE: In order to load your claim you will need the following scanned documents:
- ID / Passport / NIE
- Flight booking or tickets
- Filed complaint to the airline
- For legal representatives is necessary to attach representation authorization granted by the passenger. If it is a minor / s of age traveling alone must attach a copy of DNI NIE Passport of guardian or the child if available"


-------------------------

So, it's time to scan some documents...

[Galant]

Grave-digging update!
Sorry for any zombies unearthed!

Just to say that I have just today received a first reply from AESA in regards to my claim against the airline.

They state:

"Dear Sir/Madam,

We herein inform you that AESA has initiated the complaint processing of your complaint nº: xxxxxxxxx"

An attachment reads:
"Within the timeframe of 90 days from the reception of your claim/complaint in AESA (or 120 days in some complex cases), you will be provided with an answer, highlighting what your rights are and, where appropriate, mechanisms for their return.

Finally, we inform you that the investigation initiated by AESA in relation to your complaint, does not affect your right to initiate legal action against the carrier by reason of the incident, or interrupt the time limits set for bring such actions."

So that's just over one year since filing, official acknowledgement of receipt.

Praying for a favourable result!

[neonplanet40]

Good luck!