Steve at GN targets Intel this time ....

[Saracen999]

You lot just have to see this ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUT4d5IVY0A

.... if you haven't, already.

Steve really goes off on one at an Intel marketing slide show. I'm not sure if he's more mad about it, or just utterly muddled, confused and confusticated about whatever the <bleep> Intel thought they were doing. Nonetheless, this is one of the most thorough harpoonings I've yet seen .... and I've seen a few.

I won't say much more (go watch it, it's worth it for the s*** and giggles). Suffice it to say part of his summary was

.... this is one of the most asinine, insane 1st party sets of slides I have ever seen in this industry. I cannot believe it came out of Intel.

In the unlikely event Steve ever reads this, thanks Steve. I haven't had the best day ever, and that thoroughly lifted my mood. Nice one.

[MrJim]

Not surprisingly, Intel have apparently taken down the marketing slides. But it's been a pretty disastrous bit of PR for Intel (especially since it's entirely self-inflicted), & quite honestly smacks of desperation on their part.

[ik9000]

So, after a year or so away from this stuff it's still the case that AMD are giving Intel a whooping. Good good.

[Saracen999]

So, after a year or so away from this stuff it's still the case that AMD are giving Intel a whooping. Good good.

It seems that way, more or less, though I'm not convinced AMD are inherently any different. But right now, they're benefitting from both having a very strong processor line-up, though some not without issues, and being able to play the underdog, at least in terms of sheer size. But Intel's got some good offerings too, in (consumer level) CPU, both at the very top, and 13600/13700 sort of level. And some of those have downsides too.

In terms of what to buy, I think a good case can be made to go either way ... though personally, I'm firmly AMD at the moment. But I'm sure not dogmatic about either AMD or Intel - I don't trust either further than I could through a complete chip fab plant.

It's never a good look for a company to be taking this kind of tone or direction in marketing, and it does indeed make them look a bit desperate.

[Percy1983]

I was amazed to see this, how the mighty have fallen. I say personally AMD are in the position of first look, my current 5900x is good for now but then I upgrade I will look at AMD first and then look at what intel can offer against it.

I just hope AMD make a move on the GPU market now, they don't need to best but great value will sell, imagine a world where the 7900xtx came out at £600-£700 and the rest of the stack moved down, they would have gained so much market share.

[ik9000]

I was amazed to see this, how the mighty have fallen. I say personally AMD are in the position of first look, my current 5900x is good for now but then I upgrade I will look at AMD first and then look at what intel can offer against it.

I just hope AMD make a move on the GPU market now, they don't need to best but great value will sell, imagine a world where the 7900xtx came out at £600-£700 and the rest of the stack moved down, they would have gained so much market share.

Initially they might but then Nvidia would be forced to drop prices and the green fans would go to their default again. How much they [Nvidia] can do so depends on what profit margin they actually need to achieve to keep their shareholders happy. I imagine they have plenty of wiggle room vs costs and operating turnover given the current prices. So faced with this AMD have a gamble of how much share of the market they would actually aquire and the sum of that potential profit vs the lost profit they could more predictably make if they just matched Nvidia prices.

[Percy1983]

Initially they might but then Nvidia would be forced to drop prices and the green fans would go to their default again. How much they [Nvidia] can do so depends on what profit margin they actually need to achieve to keep their shareholders happy. I imagine they have plenty of wiggle room vs costs and operating turnover given the current prices. So faced with this AMD have a gamble of how much share of the market they would actually aquire and the sum of that potential profit vs the lost profit they could more predictably make if they just matched Nvidia prices.

Yeah this is the problem, potentially just cut the market, Nvidia don't seem bothered with the mid range looking at specs and many seem happy to just buy a 4090.

So maybe an assault on the mid/low market, ie start pushing the 6700xt out at £200-£250, it seems to be a good recommendation at the current £300 used prices and a new one cheaper would knock it out of the park.

Personally I am resigned to just running old gpus now, currently a Vega56 so might get a 5700xt once they are £120.

[Saracen999]

Initially they might but then Nvidia would be forced to drop prices and the green fans would go to their default again. How much they [Nvidia] can do so depends on what profit margin they actually need to achieve to keep their shareholders happy. I imagine they have plenty of wiggle room vs costs and operating turnover given the current prices. So faced with this AMD have a gamble of how much share of the market they would actually aquire and the sum of that potential profit vs the lost profit they could more predictably make if they just matched Nvidia prices.

Indeed. i's a well-rehearsed scenario, isn't it - that dropping prices would increase market share. I remember that logic, over many years, as part of the 'piracy' justification .... such-and-such produced is "over-priced" (meaning more than that individual wants to pay) even if the product was a CD at £15 (or whatever),or £30 for a game. After all, the logic seemed to go, the media production costs ae <insert some made-up trivial sum) and more than that is somehow exploitation because that CD buyer doesn't want to pay it, but nonetheless wants the CD. In my opinion, the correct logic is .... the seller wants £x, and either I'm prepared to pay it or I won't buy. At all.

There's an analogy, though not a complete one (unless we could 'pirate' a physical CPU/GPU) to hardware.

Yes, AMD or nVidia (or Intel) could drop prices BUT .... without detailed access to their internal accounting data, we have no real clue as to what even increasing market share would do to revenue or share price, in medium or long term views. As always, corporations should be working in the best interests of the shareholders and aren't beholden to customers in terms of minimising their outlay.

Yes, AMD might increase market share, certainly short-term, by cutting prices on, say, 7900XT /XTX, and I'd likely jump on one if they did. I'm near to that anyway, at current prices. And that is part of the problem - x% of future buyers would have bought, even if prices don't drop. Whether a much lower margin after a price drop would be sufficient, even with increased market share, to increase medium/long term revenue is a crap-shoot. Partly, it's a crap-shoot because it's hard to predict the reaction from competitors.

If AMD dropped prices too far, would nVidia react by cutting prices? Or, would they just decide they have sufficient market domination, and enough buyers that will buy their product for <insert reason> whatever AMD do? Or, would they decide that, in a few years, their shareholders best interests are served by migrating their focus from the now too-competitive GPU market, and switch their entire focus to, oh dunno, AI accelerators? There's soe evidence that that's already somewhat the case.

So yes, AMD cutting prices might attract market share but may or may not increase medium/long term shareholder interests, and nVidia may or may not cut prices to react, or might just write off consumer GPU research and development as not being as profitable as some other line of effort. They may deide to sell off the GPU line to Intel, or the Chinese government, and step out of consumer GPUs entirely. - kind-of EVGA-like.

Sure, I'd love to buy hardware at lower prices. Who wouldn't. And yes, I certainly think nVidia are currently milking it, an have been for some years. That's why I'm predisposed, right now, to 7900XT or XTX. Well, largely why.

But ultimately, it's hard to predict what effect unilateral price-cutting by AMD would have on the nVidia (or Intel, for CPUs) behemoths.

Which, coming back to that marketing campaign, is why I found Steve's ... bemusement, at whatever Intel thought they were up to with that sideshow, so damn funny. It's funny-sad that the Intel behemoth lower themselves to that. I also have this mental image of AMD's senior management rolling on their boardroom floor, laughing their collective tushes off, at how it worked out for Intel. Oh boy, how the mighty are fallen? It reminds me of what MS did to Big Blue, back in the day. And, for that matter, reminds me of the market myopia of monopolistic goliaths. The lessons are there in history, Intel. Again and again. You'd do well do pay more attention to them, and just maybe, dare I suggest, grow up a bit, and show a bit more class and maturity, and a bit less jealousy or school-yard tantrum, in your marketing.

[MrJim]

In terms of what to buy, I think a good case can be made to go either way ... though personally, I'm firmly AMD at the moment. But I'm sure not dogmatic about either AMD or Intel - I don't trust either further than I could through a complete chip fab plant.

It's never a good look for a company to be taking this kind of tone or direction in marketing, and it does indeed make them look a bit desperate.

The stupid thing is, Intel are still very competitive on raw performance, but lag behind AMD somewhat when it comes to power efficiency. It certainly isn't a good look for a corporate giant like Intel, but at least they did the right thing and took the slides down. I do wonder whether anyone will have lost their job over it, though...

[Saracen999]

The stupid thing is, Intel are still very competitive on raw performance, but lag behind AMD somewhat when it comes to power efficiency. It certainly isn't a good look for a corporate giant like Intel, but at least they did the right thing and took the slides down. I do wonder whether anyone will have lost their job over it, though...

I wondered about jobs, too. It also makes me wonder about what level of individual authorised it in the first place because it seems to me that whoever thought it was a good idea was .... let's just say, with the likes of Steve around, they were a tad naive. Note: I'm sure he isn't the only one to tear strips off it, but he happened to be the one I saw.

Taking it down quickly is good, I guess. but I'm not sure GN Steve left them a whole lot of other viable options.

As for performance, my own view is that I don't really care that much. Whatever performance tier my next CPU purchase ends up at, both AMD and Intel will have an option and I sure don't intend to sit here benchmarking whatever I buy so within that selected tier, I doubt I could tell the difference in performance. Power efficiency is a bit more important but, for me, the biggest single factor, at least for the immediate and short term, is avoiding locking myself into W11 (or rather, locking me out of W10), which the scheduler reqirements of Intel pretty much do. I want to stay with W10 as long as possible.

On a side note, as I understand it, MS just announced that W10 users will be able to get serious and critical security updates now, for at least 3 years past the Win10 end-of-support date in Oct 2025. They might, however, be charged-for.

This has long been the case for enterprise users but, this time, consumer-level users get the option too. What isn't yet clear is what level those charges (annual subscription) will be set at, or whether the subscription is required for JUST those updates, or whether they'll be free unless you want tech support included too. Another question I have is how that'll be possible without an MS account, which I neither have nor want. If I had to guess, that guess is that it won't be possible, in which case I revert back to Plan A - take my W10 system to air-gapped only and do anyting requiring online from Linux.

But that's another issue entirely.