Shopping Privacy

[IBM]

..just doing the shop online at Sainsburys, and noticed in the 'your usual' list that they had a record of just about everything I'd ever bought from them, including stuff that I'd bought in store...

...now I wasn't sure, so wanted to check, but are they supposed to be keeping track of what I'm buying like that? I have a nectar card, so I'm guessing that it's all tied together through the nectar account, but I thought I read something not so long ago about Sainsburys denying that they were keeping tabs on what people were buying 'everything done anonymously' or something.

Can someone put me right on this one. It's not so much that I'm bothered about them tracking what I buy, to tell the truth it makes it more convenient for me, consumer privacy be dammed, but if people are saying one thing then doing the other, then heads should roll....if only for consumer entertainment (I'm all about the consumer, can you tell?)

Anyone?

[tiggerai]

Tesco's does it too.

I don't think that telling you what you already know you've bought is such an issue really.
I know for a fact that they do keep a tab on what kinds of things you are buying, just look at the vouchers with a clubcard statement, all for things you usually buy.

Is them sending you vouchers you are actally going to use, rather than any old carp, really a bad thing?

[Swafe]

Tescos monopolistic ways male my blood boil, have a read of this

http://www.boycotttesco.com/

It seems Tescos now have RFID on most of their products, while its fine for them to put them on things, such as games and DVDs to stop theft, there popping up all over the places, even with grain of sand size RFID's attatched to some bags so it seems, with the ability of tracking what you buy, but where you go with it too.

[XA04]

Tescos monopolistic ways male my blood boil, have a read of this

http://www.boycotttesco.com/

It seems Tescos now have RFID on most of their products, while its fine for them to put them on things, such as games and DVDs to stop theft, there popping up all over the places, even with grain of sand size RFID's attatched to some bags so it seems, with the ability of tracking what you buy, but where you go with it too.

Wow that's crazy

[Nick F]

Every large supermarket does it with their reward card scheme. I used to work for JS and saw the mass amount of data they collect on people,

what time of day you shop,
how much you spend
usual product etc etc

[5lab]

i'm sorry, but tracking where you go with an rfid is nonsence - an rfid tag can simply be read by an rfid reader within a foot or so of it.. its probably an alternative to barcodes. the thing about the mugshots is for security - if you get a good photo of someone every time they lift a bottle, then it makes tracking down the person who's nicked them easier. its no invasion of privacy, that site is written by some mis-informed person with a chip on their shoulder.

on the other matter yes, sainsburies/nectar will track everything you do, they then publish those results anonymously, but still keep track of them personally, so they can work out your shopping habbits. nectar has been very useful at this because its multi-shop, so you can see what customers buy everywhere (wheras with a reward card you can only see this data per person)..

its been put to good use a lot of times with data mining. i believe a few years back walmart started doing this and noticed a trend of men, on a friday, buying nappies and beer (wife had sent them out to get nappies for the weekend, they got beer for the weekend at the same time). they decided to put chrips/snacks between the 2, and snack sales on a friday went up by something like 30%.

[Moby-Dick]

AFAIK RFID tags should get disabled when you leave the store , so I think that site is withholding some of its "facts"

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/0,3...2134292,00.htm

http://www.boydslaw.co.uk/news.php?id=48

the two links above seem to give a more balenced view of things.

but if you want to put on a tinfoil hat and wait for the invasion of the lizard men, then go right ahead.

[Moby-Dick]

Shop design and placement is almost an art form - but is it bad ?

its certainly annoying , for example the little reshuffles that stores do are designed to prevent you from just going for the products you want , but to browse the whole store ( which is what I do anyways )

surely will power is still there or are have our brains been dissolved by reality TV , manufactured music and hard drugs in the water so that we have to be told what to buy ?

[Swafe]

It does seem very biased agains't tescos, so it wouldnt suprise me, if they didn't get deactivated tho, its pretty shocking, full blown big brother stylee

[5lab]

ok that site has p*ssed me off, so i'm going to do a more detailed reply to it

FACT:

Tesco is one of the world's largest promoters of RFID spychips.

RFID Journal says that "Tesco has been among the most active retailers testing RFID technology." The company recently made the world's single largest publicly announced purchase of RFID readers and antennas.

umm so what??

FACT:

Tesco's use of RFID has escalated dramatically in recent weeks.

Tesco has gone on an RFID "shopping spree," buying 20,000 readers and antennas to be installed in 1,300 of its stores. Tesco "also expects to finalize a deal within weeks for the purchase of millions of [RFID] tags."

Who will pay for this expensive investment? Tesco shoppers.

so their trials were successful, and they're deploying.

as for tescos customers paying, tescos is a business, and everything it does, ultimately, is to make them money. if this scheme didnt generate an income or cut losses in the long term, they wouldnt be doing it. so it will, eventually, probably save the customer money

FACT:

Tesco plans to subject more shoppers to item-level RFID

In the article "Tesco to Expand Item-Level RFID Trial," RFID Journal reports that "the British retailer says it will switch from high to ultra-high frequency [tags] and expand its trial from two to 10 stores."

The use of any item-level tagging on is in violation of our call for a moratorium. (See next item.)

FACT:

Tesco's use of RFID tags in individual items ("item-level RFID") violates a call for a moratorium issued by privacy experts worldwide.

Over 40 of the world's leading privacy and civil liberties organizations have called for a moratorium on "item-level" tagging of consumer goods.

ok, so they're expanding their trial (thats what happens to all trials), and despite some people asking them to stop, they arent. im sorry, but if every company did what people asked them to, they wouldnt be around - landy would have stopped selling big 4x4s, all non-organic foods would be banned, etc.

i dont personally see what is wrong with using rfid tags to determine a product rather than a barcode - i mean, you still have to pay for it either way. rfid tags could theoretically make shopping very very quick - remember that ibm ad where the guy hides food around him then walks out the store? thats a GENUINE possibility of rfid (just push a trolly over a sensor and it clicks onto what you are buying) - no queues at checkouts ever again? sounds good to me tbh.. prices would go down too as less tilltarts would have to be employed, and there is less theft (as it becomes harder)

FACT:

Tesco has already abused RFID

The UK Guardian newspaper disclosed that Tesco secretly photographed shoppers picking up spytagged products as far back as 2003. Since that time, Tesco's RFID investment has increased exponentially.

(For more information on the trial, including photos, see www.BoycottGillette.com)

how is that abuse? thats a genuine use of the tagging system. everyone knows that you get filmed whenever you go in a supermarket, so why is it different if you get filmed when you buy a product that you are more likely to steal? thats just common sence..

FACT:

Tesco wants to be a "test bed" for RFID trials involving consumers

Smart Labels Analyst magazine, reported on the photo-snapping "smart shelf" trial that:

"[Tesco Manager Mr. Alan] Robinson was delighted with the project so far. 'We are cooperating with this trial in every way we can -- we would like to be a test bed for many more trials of the kind in the future." - (Issue 27; April 2003)

so?

FACT:

If Tesco is not opposed, other companies will follow its example.

"As big players such as Tesco and Metro start to take up on [RFID] technology in Europe, this is expected to have a knock-on effect for smaller retailers, which should eventially lead to RFID becoming an industry norm for all aspects of retail." - Food Production Daily

again, they havnt actually said whats wrong with the damn things

FACT:

Tesco has encouraged other businesses to spy on customers with RFID.

Smart Labels Analyst (Issue 27; April 2003) describes how Tesco executives actually invited other companies to observe their photo-snapping spy shelves.

They write: "The [Gillette "smart shelf"] trial is creating waves already. [Tesco Manager] Mr. [Alan] Robinson has shown at least 20 groups of interested businessmen around the premises. In June, a group from Japan...will visit the store to see for themselves...."

again. dont see whats wrong..

fecking interweb, it gives everyone a chance to have their say, even paranoid hippies

[IBM]

dons tinfoil hat...but only 'cause it looks snazzy

[5lab]

It does seem very biased agains't tescos, so it wouldnt suprise me, if they didn't get deactivated tho, its pretty shocking, full blown big brother stylee

i'm not sure they would be de-activated (i'm not 100% sure they can, i've not looked into it enough) but even if they didnt, an rfid tag can only be read when you go within a foot of a reader at present.. the site seems to have the paranoia that you'll be trackable from space..

as for clothing, well rfid tags are quite visable in most cases - that picture of the gillet thing is misleading imo. you couldnt hide an rfid tag in a jumper or tshirt without it being noticed.

[5lab]

gah.. i'm getting more frustrated.. the gillet site is delibrately misleading

RFID stands for Radio Frequency IDentification, a technology that uses tiny computer chips smaller than a grain of sand to track items at a distance. RFID "spy chips" have been hidden in the packaging of Gillette razor products and in other products you might buy at a local Wal-Mart, Target, or Tesco - and they are already being used to spy on people.



Above: Magnified image of actual tag found in Gillette Mach3 razor blades. Each tiny chip is hooked up to an antenna that picks up electromagnetic energy beamed at it from a reader device. When it picks up the energy, the chip sends back its unique identification number to the reader device, allowing the item to be remotely indentified. Spy chips can beam back information anywhere from a couple of inches to up to 20 or 30 feet away.

bah. notice how they dont use the termonoligy 'rfid' on the 2nd paragraph? thats because rfid doesnt do that.. the range of a passive rfid tag (ie one without its own battery, like they'd put in products) is directly relative to the size of the device, so whilst you can get a very small chip (less than a mm square) it will only work 10mm away from the reader..

lots of info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID

[Moby-Dick]

%lab have a look at the Zdnet link I posted, it talks about kill switches for RFID.

I agree with you on that site - it make my blood boil , but not for swafe's reasons

sites that keep using the word FACT like that get right on my nips - said "facts" are posted, but they dotn attempt to make any interpretation of the fact or indeed draw conclusions other than "OMFG !!11 RFID is teh Suck!!"

As for the tags, who here has to use a security pass to get into their office ?
what do you think is in it ?

[Alex]

lol 5lab, I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that website!

[Swafe]

Well if its all true then it does tescos way, but the site, I have to say is a bit biased and cack

My mate sent it me last night, and made an interesting read at least. and as for needing a reader, I'm not sure as I've not read into how RFID works, but wouldnt the RF imply radio frequency? Meaning it just needs a reciever anywhere, not just not right next to it