Music is just maths.. apparently

[Dougal]

Anyone here read Terry Pratchetts Thief Of Time?

Got a good angle on this near the end where the auditors try to break down art into its base components to find why it is art and so on, but the fail miserably at normal human emotions.

[schmunk]

Not quite sure we can use maths to understanding emotions etc.

TiG

Emotions are basically Biology

Biology is basically Chemistry

Chemistry is basically Physics

Physics is basically Maths

Therefore, Emotions could be expressed mathematically (we just don't have the right equations yet).


I had this discussion with the wife/inlaws last weekend.

[EvilMunky]

fun

[TiG]

Emotions are basically Biology

Therefore, Emotions could be expressed mathematically (we just don't have the right equations yet).

You make a few assumptions that i'd disagree with, Emotions while formed by brain chemistry are made up by an awful lot more than just mere chemicals in my opinion. 2 people see the same site and have different reactions to it. Both have different brain chemistry at the start and end. Every case is unique and as such any formula would likely to be for a single case. The brain chemistry being altered by physical/psychological events in the persons life.

Formulas to govern memory/emotion would be unworkable at least in my opinion.
How can you govern the amount of factors that make people happy?.

Maths is not even that good at handling how a flame burns. It can't model the colours, shapes of the flames on a single candle. Let alone the affect it has on the human psyke.

TiG

[EvilMunky]

thats what i meant

[schmunk]

You make a few assumptions that i'd disagree with, Emotions while formed by brain chemistry are made up by an awful lot more than just mere chemicals in my opinion. 2 people see the same site and have different reactions to it. Both have different brain chemistry at the start and end. Every case is unique and as such any formula would likely to be for a single case. The brain chemistry being altered by physical/psychological events in the persons life.

Formulas to govern memory/emotion would be unworkable at least in my opinion.
How can you govern the amount of factors that make people happy?.

Maths is not even that good at handling how a flame burns. It can't model the colours, shapes of the flames on a single candle. Let alone the affect it has on the human psyke.

TiG

Ah, you're talking about maths as we know it today. As I say, we just don't have a complex enough model yet.

You've played the Sims? That's all about governing the things that make a person happy. Now just keep making that model more and more complex....

[Krikkit]

Music isn't really maths, it can be analyzed in a mathematical fashion, but no human can openly calculate how the music is sounding consciously, it'll just sound "flat" or dull on its own to a well-eared musician.

[Tomahawk]

I have heard this before Maths is Music, Music is Maths etc. but to me that is far too general to point anything to. As there is nothing concrete by which they are making this generalisation. Where as if someone was to say to me Music is Maths, this can be shown in the song __________ by _____________ when the ___________ does this that and the other.. etc. I may have a slightly different opinion, but then I would have to test this 'theory' as it were for myself..

Although saying this, I did have a lesson on it. Whereby 'beats' as it were, could be explained as to how they came about, and why they stick in your mind by using Maths, it also explained how simple drum beats came along, as they actually appear in human nature, for example in Animals breathing.


Altogether as many people have pointed out, everything can be if we want it to be, related and traced back to Maths in some way. But saying that the whole concept of Music is based upon Maths doesn't seem to echo much truth with me currently. What about 'human' creativity, every piece of music ever composed, every song, may follow some kind of Mathematical formula be it accidental or on purpose, but without the Human creativity, Maths alone would not of been able to create the greatest works, in my opinion of course.

[Knoxville]

Emotions are basically Biology

Biology is basically Chemistry

Chemistry is basically Physics

Physics is basically Maths

Therefore, Emotions could be expressed mathematically (we just don't have the right equations yet).


I had this discussion with the wife/inlaws last weekend.

So basically I only need one GCSE?

[Purple]

Yeah i agree with Tomahawk and the other posts that say that there is a certain amount of human creativity in a piece of music, for example the volume at which a note is played to enphasise a particular emotion is all up to the guy playing it. Take for example the Star Wars theme if the first note was played quietly it wouldnt really draw you in - my point is if a computer could compose music, therefore making it mathmatically compatible, it could analyse the harmonies etc and come out with something that didnt sound rubbish but it would fail to evoke emotion because the understanding of emotion would not be there (unless you live in Schmunk's fantasy world obviously ).

[muddyfox470]

I have always believed that good musicians re good mathematicians

altho there are exceptions to every rule, i do know some very good mathematicians, who play a variety of instruments, altho they may not be so good at other subjects