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About LinkBacksParty polotics and the strangle hold from the media.Originally Posted by fray_bentos
Find me a party that'd raise general taxation and reduce fuel duty and I'll find you a party that's not getting elected.
Party polotics and the strangle hold from the media.
Find me a party that'd raise general taxation and reduce fuel duty and I'll find you a party that's not getting elected.
The entire argument is flawed. Even if Gordon Brown does reduce fuel duties, the price will be back to where it currently is within a few years as the price of crude rises and rises and rises. What are they going to do? Protest every time it nears a quid a litre?
The short sightedness of these people is staggering.
Simple solution. Buy smaller/more fuel efficient cars. If you are a small business that is affected by this then you are not running a sustainable business. It's not as if your competitors are buying cheaper fuel.
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
What? wow... that entire reply... just... wow. "a measly few thousand"? Pretty much everyone who drives is against the high fuel prices, the argument is that it's causing small companies who rely on transport, etc to go out of business. Comparing fuel protests to terrorism is just retarded. Last I checked, no fuel protestors had blown anybody up. Or dug up the remains of an Oil Execs relatives.
I agree with Ben though, people need to understand that Oil is a finite resource and eventually we are going to run out. In the meantime we should be trying to be more economical, ie, not buying ridiculous 4x4's, etc.
Why is it so far fetched? As I said if it was just protesting, then fair enough. Its when people take action that adversly affects others that I object. Maybe i was going slightly too far comparing it to NI but I still feel that the basic point is there. Fuel protesters havnt blown anybody up no thats true, but the damage done doesnt have to be manifested in terms of people being killed. The damage here is far reaching in other ways - the people who can't get to work because they have no fuel, the kids who can't get to school, or get there but find no teachers. The panic buying which eventaully may lead to panic buying in the shops again (as in that last protests)..Important meetings may not go ahead resulting in dramatic problems being caused for businesses. Whether you choose to accept that or not is up to you, but taking the protests as far as they are planning does cause problems and can damage peoples lives. Some of the more clever terrorism follows this tac, terrorism doesnt automatically mean bombs/shootings/whatever, economic terrorism is just as bad. Maybe its a little bit extream to call it that but it bears some remarkable similarities...
Oh an by a few thousand I was referring to the people actaully taking part in the protests/blockades - not those who dont agree with the high prices.
Last edited by Spud1; 13-09-2005 at 03:26 PM.
But people can get to work... because they've all rushed out and brimmed their tanks. Haven't the protestors said there won't even be any blockades?
Ok, but you have to factor in inflation - a rise of 20p over a single year is far worse than over several.
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At the moment yes they can, but the blockades are supposed to be starting on friday if people vote to do it (according to BBC news)
Thats what i'm disagreeing with - i'm all for protesting until it begins to harm others - ie these blockades
Brown has been busily pointing the finger elsewhere. While he controls one of the highest fuel duties in the world. Reduce taxes? He'd rather disembowel himself with a blunt spoon.
"You want loyalty? ......get a dog!"
I dont see what inflation has to do with the rising price of crude?
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
People need to accept prices will continue to rise as Oil supply becomes less and less. People don't really help themselves though, I wonder how many people who are compalining drive cars with crappy fuel economy.
Love to, but.....
Can't go smaller for what I use my car for. Can't get much more fuel efficient within my means.
So the price of fuel dictates I change my hobbies/lifestyle?
I do also have a V6 (with the worst MPG/BHP return ever) tucked up in the drive but I make a point of never complainging about the cost of it, it's all my fault, but I'm quite happy to pay the larger taxs on that as it's a luxury.
Quite simply, yes. You do understand that global oil production is going to be decreasing now until there is no more oil left to use, right? That means it is going to be getting more and more expensive. This will NOT change.
Yes, it means you will have to change your lifestyle. We will ALL have to change our lifestyle. Look on the bright side, if we lived in Ethiopia or the Sudan, the price rises will mean most of us will be dead in 20 or so years, so the long and short of changing your hobby are probably the good side of the coin, you know?
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
Firstly, there are quite viable alternatives to burning oil which won't run out. I'm not seeing even the 5% bio mix diesel for sale yet and most new cars have seals that are perfectly capable of running it.
Lifestyle's kind of hard to define, I don't mean 'living it up' or anything, just the fact a lifestyle change is gonna involve a restriction on my free movement.
And as for a change a change hobby and being glad I'm alive, I'm afraid I just aint one of these people that takes comfort from breathing in and out. If fuel's so expensive that performing arts suffer in this country why bother pumping all the money into the music departments of schools in the first place?
It's not unreasonable in one of the most expensive countries in the world, with a government who really aren't investing in alternatives. Besides, we drive (mostly) cars with much smaller, more fuel efficient engines than the yanks who (aside from the californians) don't seem to give a flying crap about the environment by comparison.
Crosshair VIII Hero (WIFI), 3900x, 32GB DDR4, Many SSDs, EVGA FTW3 3090, Ethoo 719
Yes, yes it is. If the source of energy for moving becomes scarce, we will either have to find other sources of energy or stop moving. This is a concept the fuel protestors appear incapable of grasping.
Like I said, Luddites the lot of them.
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
I'd like to see projected figures for getting this country OFF oil and onto alternatives. Proper independant figures.
There's a difference between protest and complaining isn't there.
You can complain that fuels expensive or you can find a viable solution and protest that it's not being followed up by people WE pay to make the country work.
...I think it's those people that should be looking for alternatives, either themselves or thorough commercial/financial incentives.
Where the heck are the Mr Fusion cars we were promised?
Crosshair VIII Hero (WIFI), 3900x, 32GB DDR4, Many SSDs, EVGA FTW3 3090, Ethoo 719
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