IT Training

[Allen]

I've been looking into this a lot recently and have just had an opportunity handed to me that I can't refuse. I am currently unemployed and am looking to start training towards an IT qualification after working for almost 10 years in accounts.

I was looking into getting an MCSE qualification but have been hearing lots of bad stories about them and the companies that train them. I've never been one to fall for the "train with as and we'll guaruntee you a job paying x amount of dosh" so that rules out most companies like Computeach etc. I was reading in another thread about MCSE qualifications and someone suggested a course that was run at a college which happens to be 20 mins down the road from me. I liked the sound of this so have been looking into it more.

I know what I want to do in IT (Network Admin/Support) and I think this sounds like a pretty good way to get there, but before I invest hundreds of pounds and 4-5 months of my life I thought I'd run it past a few of the "professionals" here to see what you think. The course I'm looking at is this:

Computer Network Management

It's a 17 week course studying 3 days a week. It covers most things about networks that I have basic knowledge of and need training on. I don't have any previous qualifications, but working on the inside of PC's for the past god knows how many years and being "tech support" to all my friends and family should cover me for the "experience of using PC software and some knowledge of computer operating systems" and also the "computer hardware experience would also be an advantage".

After completing this course and gaining the EdExcel qualification I would then be looking into finding a job with a medium sized company with the qualification and practical experience gained and also the willingness to further my training at a later date by going for a Foundation Degree in IT for E-Business (Network Specialist) course, which the Computer Network Management course above can lead to as said here:

"Success on this course allows entry onto our IT for E-Business (Network Specialist) Foundation Degree course that incorporates the Microsoft MCSA and the Cisco CCNA professional qualifications"

This to me sounds like a good way to get into Networking as I will start off getting practical experience and a recognised qualification, hopefully getting a job within networking and later gaining MCSA and CCNA qualifications as part of a foundation degree.

Can anyone vouch for this course, or the EdExcel qualification? Does this sound like a good route, or would you choose another course?

Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

[Allen]

Bump for some responses please. Am about to sign up on this course.

[chrestomanci]

I don't think you will get a detailed answer on this, as most people are not familiar with these courses.

Many IT professionals are quite cynical about MSCE qualifications, mainly because the test is multiple choice and the 'correct' answers are more about selling more Microsoft product than providing a sensible solution to the problem described on the exam paper. Having said that, having MSCE on your CV will keep it out of the HR droid's waste basket, especially in larger companies and recruitment agencies where the HR people mainly look for buzzwords.

As for the other courses you are looking at, I think you should consider them seriously. The course fees are not that high, and if you are unemployed anyway they will be almost free and you have the time.

Do you have a plan on what kind of job you want and how you are going to get it? If not I think you should read a book like Parachute that will give you some good advice on how to go about finding a better job. You might also benifit from some face to face advice from someone working in your chosen field.

[fuzzball172]

I have to agree with the comments made by chrestomanci, There are so many different qualifications out there, and most are not worth the paper they are written on, to be honest...
I lecture for a local college, teaching MCP / MCSA courses. I tell all my students that the paper qualifications get you past HR and your actual knowledge will be tested by any IT manager worth his/her salt (I used to be one of those too)...
Basically there is no alternative to actual experience, and to get experience you need to work in the job... catch 22. But there is a way round this, most colleges have placement schemes with local businesses that allow the student to gain experience in the real world, while the company gets free / cheap labour. If you are serious about IT then this is the only way in, other than starting with 1st or 2nd line support, which pays peanuts and can be hard to get out of!
Option 2 is to go self employed, tough to get started but the rewards are there if you put in the effort.
Option 3 is voluntary IT work for local charities, again no pay but it does look good on a CV

Of course you could be really lucky and land a good job if you get the whole interview conducted by HR who don't usually know jack about IT except the product names and buzz words.

Good luck with your studies, but try and figure in some practical experience in there too...

[fuzzball172]

Oh I forgot to mention, try to get hold of an evaluation license for SBS2003, this is a good windows server platform to play with for home study, gives you most of the server2k3 features and exchange server is built in as well, so you can play with it. I would recommend the following books, mastering server 2003 and mastering exchange server by mark minasi from Sybex. Also another good book that all sys admins should read is The practice of system and network administration by Limoncelli and Hogan, from addison wesley publishers. These will be your bibles when you start out...
and always remember the most important IT guy tool... Google, this is the first thing i teach my students. It is impossible to know everything in IT, but if you can get a connection to the net, then you have millions of KB entries, tutorials and troubleshooting resources at your fingertips.
And lastly, learn Linux! more and more people are switching, the big guns in IT hardware are starting to ship hardware with Redhat, Suse and other Linux distros, M$'s empire will not last forever, and someday soon the Linux support contracts will start attracting good money as there are not many linux support guys out there...

[chrestomanci]

I would add to fuzzball172's comments.

I would encoreage you more strongly than he did to get familar with Linux. I definately think that my Linux familarity has helped me a lot in my career and it always helps in technical interviews. A linux distro CD contains loads of tools that if you learn will be of great value. Like many people I have a home Linux server, with varous services installed and mainted by me. They translate into worthwhile CV buzzwords.

Linux also offers a 4th option of how to get experence without a formal job. Do some OSS work for a project, and get your name out there. Recuiters regularly trawl the mailing lists of open source projects and contact the people they find.

[Moby-Dick]

Option 3 is voluntary IT work for local charities, again no pay but it does look good on a CV

*cough* http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?t=96354

Linux knowledge isn't much use if you work in a 100% microsoft house , though it can come in handy with more budget conscious (ie tight) employers who see the £0 price tag as an advantage.

What Linux would teach you is troubleshooting skills & approaches which are far more useful than any specific OS knowledge - When I was interviewing I'd be more impressed with someone who battled their way through a nasty problem with a simple system than one who was showing off an all singing / all dancing , but more off - the - peg system.

As far as CV's and buzzwords go, Remember that a CV will only ever get you an interview , it wont get you a job.

[[GSV]Trig]

My CV sucks on the IT paperwork front.
All I've done are some RM Connect Network Management Courses and thats about it, I've been in IT for about 13 years tho, the paper looks good on the CV and will get you an interview but does real world experiance mean more?

[fuzzball172]

Linux knowledge isn't much use if you work in a 100% microsoft house

Linux is invaluable as a tool to recover NTFS and FAT32 / FAT partitions, data and passwords...

If you havnt got either the ultimate boot disk, or knoppix (live bootable distro) you dont know what you are missing...

I couldnt work without either of them... LEARN LINUX!!!!
its all very well knowing which M$ wizard to run to connect to a domain or other 'IT professional' hack taught by M$ MCP courses, without the basic command line skills linux teaches, you will soon hit major problems when supporting M$ products... I learnt the command line with DOS many many years ago, and linux takes that knowledge to the next level so to speak...

Linux is an excellent platform to learn to operate a PC or server via the command line, and any IT support guy / girl should be more at home with the command line than GUI wizards (IMO). I was taught years ago, if you cant write a script to do the day to day stuff, use the GUI. Use the command line to fix the problems... A great motto to live your IT life by

[ikonia]

pretty pointless as most microsoft products are windows driven and don't have a command line version.

[Moby-Dick]

pretty pointless as most microsoft products are windows driven and don't have a command line version.

It depends on what you want to do. - A lot of the more powerfull tools still use a CLI ( eg Exchange defrags and some of the deeper level AD stuff. )

Microsoft often provide CLI tools , but they are less advertised.Using wizards is fine , as long as you know *why* you are using it

If you havnt got either the ultimate boot disk, or knoppix (live bootable distro) you dont know what you are missing...

been using them for about 5 years. Is that OK with you ?

[chrestomanci]

If you havnt got either the ultimate boot disk, or knoppix (live bootable distro) you dont know what you are missing...

been using them for about 5 years. Is that OK with you ?

I thought it only came out at the end of 2003 or so.

I have been using since then. I am currently trying to put it onto a 2Gb USB stick so that I can have knoppix + persistent home directory + space for other files, all on a minature thumb drive that is the size of a £1 coin.

[Moby-Dick]

Winternals produced their ERD commander disks in about 2002

It was a PE environment , but not quite - same functionality for recovering data/ passwords.

[yamangman]

Basically there is no alternative to actual experience, and to get experience you need to work in the job... catch 22

I completely disagree with this. If you're serious about learning you'll find it's fantastically easy to pick up 'marketable' experience without working. You're interviewer will as a rule gently probe you () for technical knowledge and the way you pull the interview off will ultimately decide whether you land a job.

[fuzzball172]

sorry to disagree, but having been both an interviewer and interviewee, hands on practical experience is a must. unless you are after a basic 1st / 2nd line support job.

and a quick note to mobydick... yep fine with me, they are brilliant tools!!!

[yamangman]

sorry to disagree, but having been both an interviewer and interviewee, hands on practical experience is a must. unless you are after a basic 1st / 2nd line support job.

and a quick note to mobydick... yep fine with me, they are brilliant tools!!!

Yea that's not what i'm disagreeing with. What I'm saying is you don't need a job to pick up that experience.