CRT Price Check, TFT Info.

[Stewart]

Yes, Mod of this section I may be, but I've never owned a TFT, as I game a lot, but now I want to make my rig LAN friendly, as well as upgrading a few bits internally. So firstly, what you reckon I can get for a 19" Iiyama Vision Master 1451, as new, no damage or scratches?

Now, TFTs, looking for a 19" model, very sexy, response time suited to gaming, FPS games in paticular.

Not looking to spend silly money, but I want something quality and will pay for it.

Cheers all,

Stew.

[Nomadd]

Not looking to spend silly money [snip]

I'd have a read of this http://www.theinquirer.org/?article=18249 before you buy. Sure, hardware prices are going down all the time, but there is real oversupply of TFT's. If you aren't desperate, might be worth holding out a few more weeks (and stock will be cleared to seel over the next couple of months in the build up to the newer kit that always gets launched in time for Christmas.)

Me, I'm waiting until later on in the year for much faster response time panels - and to see if they live up to the hype of these lower responses rates. And that's especially important for the larger panel sized displays.

Nomadd

[Stewart]

I thought 16ms was sorted for gaming?

eBuyer now have 19" Sharp 16ms TFTs for £354. Nice size, decent brand, low responce. How low are you talking about here?

[Apex]

8ms / 12ms

[Stewart]

But is that low actually needed, or just a nice feature? Has anyone ever had a problem with ghosting on a 16ms TFT?

[Apex]

I not had probs with 25ms stuff :/

The one prob with tft's is they carn't show shades of colour right it's either red,blue or green

So while they aim for lower and lower response times they forget to update any of the other specs.

Has for the 19" 100 quid tops m8

[MAS]

16ms should be low enough, I really dont think most people would notice the difference if it goes any lower. Sometimes the lower response panels have other issues anyway, so you need to make sure that by getting a lower response you're not compromising on anything else.

The Sharp panel is nice; I've had a Sharp before and they're good screens. The problem is that it's missing DVI - you have to decide whether that bothers you, but personally I consider it essential for a good TFT.

What's your max budget? I'd have a look at the high end Dell TFTs (although these can cost silly money). Viewsonic do a 16ms 19" TFT which is well regarded.

[Nomadd]

I thought 16ms was sorted for gaming?

eBuyer now have 19" Sharp 16ms TFTs for £354. Nice size, decent brand, low responce. How low are you talking about here?

You shouldn't judge a TFT panel by response time alone - it's a bogus marketing trick most of the time. Some fine, detailed reviews on Tom's and Anand's have been published over the last year or two on TFTs; I reckon you should stop by those sites and have a read. Sharp/Samsung seem to have good feedback, but the problem is they do so many different models - all with very similar sounding model numbers. Tread carefully. Add the fact that very few of the 'brand name' manufacturers actually make their own panels or driver ICs, and it's a much trickier business than just saying a 19" from XXX. Again, Anand's and Tom's will steer you in the right direction. :-)

Nomadd

[Stewart]

DVI - needed or nice but can live without.

Opinions please.

[+Murphy+]

Hi peeps, longtime lurker decided to register at last.

I'm in a similar position, I've been debating getting a screen for the last 8 weeks or so, with the intention to focus on quality rather than size. Money is in the bank and waiting for me to decide on what to get.

The price for top notch 17 inch screens has been falling and it seems that the first fast (ie <25ms) 19 inch screens are starting to come through, though I havent seen any reviews yet.

16 ms may be 'enough' for games, but some simple maths puts that at a 60Hz limit. It wasnt that long ago that people were complaining about minimum acceptable refresh rates on monitors and that 60Hz can still show a perceptable flicker if you are sensitive to such things or are looking out for it. 12ms or even 8 ms panels obviously have better spec on paper (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/d...904144305.html), but the difficulty is that paper specs dont translate into real world performance because of the way in which the response times are defined. The Toms article is quite good at explaining this, after which you will realise that my 60Hz means nowt, in some situations it will be better, in some it could be worse.

I think its like all of the computer business, at some point you got to take the leap and as long as what you get at the time is suitable for your needs then thats all that matters.

If you are going for 17 inch there are a raft of contendors, some those which are repeatedly mentioned being:

Samsung 172X
Iiyama 431
LG (can remember the number)
Hyundai Q17

The last three use the same panel, which is made by Hydis (Hyundai). I think the Samsung uses their own.

I'm also interested in how the new Shuttle XP17 performs since opinions seems to vary on the issue of reflection from the glass cover, but the portability of it may be worth having.

At 19 inch there is a new Sony SDM-HS94P (12ms). At least with Sony you can wander over the local store if you have one near and have a look at the screen in person. I intend to do so, but havent managed to get of my arse yet. I also havent seen any reviews on this yet, but as is, it looks promising.

No idea what other brands are like. Benq is a big name, they were/are part of Acer, but I havent read any reviews (not that I looked). Its a pity that Hercules pulled out of the market, since the second generation of their Profitview 920Pro was great.

If you want to game mainly then response is the most critical issue, though as mentioned above by someone else, low response times tend to mean compromises with colour reproduction (6 bit vs 8 bit). I'm sort of stuck here since I want to frag and my wife wants to do arty things, so we need something which fits us both. She is not yet warming to the idea of two TFTS, but I am working on it.

On the issue of DVI, if you have a good analogue cable and good GFX card the difference may be small, but computers are digital beasts and it just doesnt seem right to convert a digital signal to analogue and then back again, there will always be imperfections to some degree. DVI is the way forward and to be honest there are few good screens which lack it, I think it should be a must have on your list of wants.

One other niggle for me is the resolution issue, 17 and 19 at the moment are both 1200x1000, so you have no improvment in pixel real estate. Going to 19.1 or 20 inches will give you 1600x1200 but thats big bucks.

Finally, the dead pixel/sub-pixel issue. Warranty for this varies greatly (again, see Toms which has an in depth article from last year). I believe CTX even had a no dead pixel guarantee at one point, but few do. And remember, its relatively easy to say no dead pixels, but its sub-pixels which are more likely to go and if you get an assurance from anyone make sure its sub-pixels and full pixels they are talking about. They can go during use, and there is FA you can do about this unless it exceeds the ISO standard or the company's discretionary limits. I think its worth paying the extra to a retailer who will open the box and check for you, so you can ensure that you start out on a good footing.

Anyway, that was my ramble.

Scott

[MAS]

As I've said I think DVI is essential. I've heard people say that a good VGA card/cable can do a TFT justice and while it's obvious that the better components you have, the better the image, I've compared top quality VGA and DVI and DVI still gives a noticable improvement. It's surprising what a difference it makes; and not only to making the picture as sharp and crisp as it should be, but I've often heard people say that a DVI connection will produce less ghosting. I'm really not sure if there's any truth behind this. However, I can see why people might think this.

I think it's a bit silly to go for a high spec TFT with a low response time and not have DVI.

[shamus21]

One other thing to think about is the life of a TFT over CRT. I don`t know what this is have seen the storys some good some bad. I only use CRT`s but i have had them going for eight years now sure the tubes are not like they were when new but still ok for job (Sony`s 21")

[MAS]

The backlights on TFTs do fade over time, but we're talking years. Pretty much all TFTs come with a 3 year warranty (check to make sure it covers the backlight). I imagine that after 3 years you'd probably want to upgrade it anyway.

[0iD]

I've used an Iiyama Prolite for gaming. Whilst it is undoubtedly very very good, it lacks the crispness & vibrancy of a quality CRT imo. But it's close.

[Apex]

The one thing that might make things hard for tfts with dvi connectors is the EU will start to add tax to any tft with a dvi connector on it, why...well it will now be classed as a tv and so subject to tax eu wide

So it might get to the point where dvi is not put on tfts just so we don't end up paying extra tax :/

[Apex]

One other thing to think about is the life of a TFT over CRT. I don`t know what this is have seen the storys some good some bad. I only use CRT`s but i have had them going for eight years now sure the tubes are not like they were when new but still ok for job (Sony`s 21")

Sony 21" here, made in 1998 and still going to this day