AGTDenton (16-09-2022)
They lose hundred of dollars per high end GPU.
They don't know prices until nvidia says so.
Nvidia suck to work with.
But they won't/can't work with Intel or AMD, seems weird, unsure why they wouldn't do this unless they're in trouble (they say they're not)
I saw a comment saying they think working with other GPU manufacturers would be a similar story but I don't get why ANYONE would work with Nvidia/AMD in that case?
Wow!
Can't say I've ever owned anything EVGA, but they made the best Geforce tuning software for years.
For the official word:
https://forums.evga.com/m/tm.aspx?m=3574574&p=1
Saw both vids but haven't watched 'em yet. Seems a great shame as EVGA seem to be among the best of options. They must have their reasons though, and I've come across manufacturers in the past that were horrible to work with, but dominant enough to be hard to avoid. I hope they know What they're doing.
A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".
I have thought this might start to happen when nvidia starting undercutting partners by selling founders edition cards.
I haven't recently either. Years ago, yeah, but until this year I hadn't really updated much of anything computer-wise for ages. The last 18 months has been expensive, as a result.Originally Posted by AGTDenton
But I have helped friends out, sometimes in buying and often in problem-solving and my experience matches (on a pretty small scale) what Jay said in that video - EVGA have/had excellent support.
I have a (fairly small) list of companies I won't deal with because of either personal bad experience or their publicised antics. Gigabyte for instance, over the 'exploding' PSUs, and specifically why that happened and their company stance over it. So, Gigabyte are off my list for both Mobo and GPU, as well as PSU, until/unless I see convincing evidence they've changed practices and attitude. In my current spec'ing up of a putchase, I'm not even looking at what they have let alone price.
But conversely, when I get good service/support, those companies goes on my 'preferred' list. It's a sorta whitelist/blacklist thing. I'll usually go to whitelist suppliers and only go elsewhere is either my whitelisters don't do what I want, or I don't have a whitelist for some product type, or a very good reason. Price differences aren't good enough, unless it's just too big to ignore. Essentially, I'm a lazy git, I hate hassle and a company that supports me well gets lots of hassle-avoidance points and that, to me anyway, is worth paying a premium for.
Ive been buying car stereo equipment, for instance, from the same company for about 45 years. I decide what I want, go to them for a price (probably fitted) and unless they're way off, buy there. The company changed ownsership about 20 years ago when the founder retired but a couple of long-term managers bought it out and their philosophy remained the same. I would still go there now.
EVGA was on my GPU whitelist. If/when I get a 30xx card (not looking at 40xx seriously) they're still on it, if they have them left. The inferences from EVGA breaking off white nVidia does make me hesitant to go FE, though. Dunno. Given that my needs are probably modest, maybe?? But this doesn't endear nVidia to me much, and were AMD looking competitive for what I want (which invludes video rendering) /i might even veer that way. But .... I'm nervous about that.
My takeaway? nVidia have had effective monopoly power for too long. Way too long.
A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".
So it's mostly personal with CEO wanting to spend more time with family. Fair dos.
Public or privately held company?
Dunno about "mostly". I got the impression it was, at least in public, mostly about having had enough of dealing with nvidia. Reading (or imagining) between the lines, it may also be about current upheavals in the GPU arena, over-supply of 30xx in the market, and tiny margins at least on higher end cards. I mean, if PSUs given many times of profit margin (per card) of GPUs, despite being 20% of gross volume as opposed to 78% for GPU gross volume, the it seems they're doing the vast bulk of the wor, with an uncooperaive supplier, for a very small part of the profit.
In that context, and given his age, I can certainly sympathise with Andrew Han wanting a small fraction of the hassle of GPUs when they're next to (or actually) unprofitabe, compared to PSUs. And, for that matter, spending less time with nose-to-grindstone and more time with family. Not on anything like that scale, but that was largely why I retired - I could, and as I got older, my energy levels decreased and a quieter life looked ever more appealing.
A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".
Private according to Wiki
You would think the better thing to do is move aside for a new CEO.
No point in slowing down the rest of the company for wanting to be at home more.
Not necessarily. If it's a private company, the owner could be on the hook for problems caused by future trading by whoever a new CEO is, especially if it isn't limited, but in some ways even if it is. It could be that the company is solvent and has reserves now, by continuing with nVidia could well lead the a significant cash expenditure on next gen cards and if profitability on those is skewed in the way those videos suggest, and the margin for EVGA is so low that it's a shedload of effort, hassle and risk for minimal reward, and possibly even a loss. After all, contracts usual stipulate orders many months in advance, and with rising cost of living causing consumers to tighten belts and with changes in mining, they could be getting out ahead of having to buy massive stocks they think they will have trouble selling, and even if they do sell, the profit margin appears to be tiny.
Not all business is worth having. Any small business with a large contract with a major supermarket can tell you how that can be. A friend of mine closed his company down and retired for pretty much that exact reason. And sure .... "sell the company" .... if you can find a suitable and willing buyer. Which my friend couldn't. Nobody wanted to buy into the risk.
Sometimes, a company can just grow into a rut that can be hard to break out of. 78% of gross revenue resulting in virtually no profit, and perhaps a huge risk, sounds like a rut to me.
Without knowing a lot more about the internals of EVGA, it's hard to know if selling, or getting a new CEO, are even options assuming the owner actually even wants to do that. They may just want to restructure and refocus the business away from GPUs and that may, in the medium and long term, be a better future for them. Time will tell, I guess.
A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".
AGTDenton (20-09-2022)
A new CEO to drive a poorly performing product?
There were rumours some months back of 3000 series chips oversupply where Nvidia were basically forcing companies to take chips they didn't want. If the threat was "take these loss making chips, or you won't get any allocation of 4000 series chips when they come out" (the sort of behaviour you would expect from Intel) then I would see EVGA's point here.
AGTDenton (20-09-2022)
100% this - Nvidia have done everything they can to not only milk the market dry (can't blame them - they are a company) but also to prevent competitors getting a look in (CUDA, PhysX etc). Its exactly the same problem you had with Intel CPU's until Ryzen came along. Nvidia need a competitive AMD/Intel GPU to stop some of this behavior and make the GPU market work again. I don't blame EVGA for giving up on it.
I wonder when Nvidia would be able to 'do an Apple' and drop the AiBs entirely, surely that's at least another generation away (?)
If any more AiBs go then that's potentially 'good' for other AiBs in the short term, bad for Nvidia (short term) but good for them long term as it might push their agenda of keeping it all in-house.
Just thinking how this could go in the next few years.
But Intel would simply play their own silly lock-in games. Personally, I think it was Intel that pushed Nvidia down this road in the first place, Nvidia didn't used to be anything like this bad until Intel went for their throat some years back.
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