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Thread: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    So this was new, Luckily it isn't on my PC but on my other halfs rig, she updated it and suddenly it wants her to sign in, there was no way around it and she ended up having to log in.

    Why would this have happened? i don't let my PC auto update for this very reason i want my PC to stay just that.... personal, not logged into everything so i can have ads etc fed down my throat

    So with that, anyone have any idea why Microsoft might do this etc? is it possibly something she did on her PC that im not aware of?
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Super Moderator Jonj1611's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    Usually there is something in small text that says use offline account or something.

    I think when you update it takes you through the setup again. If it happens disconnect from the internet. Turn the router off if you need to and then you should be able to continue normally.
    Jon

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    Yeah, so far I've always been able to fault out of that by pulling ethernet cable or turning off wifi.

    In Windows 11 sounds like it is harder to avoid though, another reason for sticking on 10 for now (though I'm sure it will go the same way eventually).

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonj1611 View Post
    Usually there is something in small text that says use offline account or something.
    This is normally the case but this time it wasn't there o.O and now her PC has changed all its settings
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Super Moderator Jonj1611's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    If you go to accounts in settings you should be able to change it back to a local account :

    Select Start > Settings > Accounts > Your info.

    Select Sign in with a local account
    Jon

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    Editable... jimbouk's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    Made the mistake of connecting to the internet during an install and had to sign in, made a burner account just for it. Once done created a local account and removed the new account from the machine.

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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    I haven't yet been forced to use an MS account, though I do use login, but only with a local account.

    According to this system, I'm "up to date", checked this AM, but at the same time it's telling me the 21H2 update is available for d/l, and it's been telling me that for months. That seems .... contradictory.

    Like DwU, the increasingly aggressive forcing of an MS account is one reason I'm not using W11. Not the only reason though - another being that this MS Surface Pro, "isn't compatible". Nice one, MS. Have another on me.

    Yes, apparently you can get round the MS account thing, even on W11 (last time I checked), but it's getting harder. Which is also partly why my new laptop (which definitely IS W11-compatible, isn't getting it any time soon.

    As for razer's SO's problem, I think it's hard to infer much about what might be going on on her system from what's going on on mine. It does seem, not unreasonably, that exactly what gets installed varies on a given system seems to depend on a set of factors specific to that system, not least, what the hardware is and what's already installed.

    What can we deduce, then?

    I've not heard of any recent updates forcing MS accounts on all uodates system .... but, due to that staggered rollout, it could be a new thing and she's just got 'lucky' and had it happened earlier than me. So it could be a general thing, or yes, it could be specific to her machine, and/or a control panel setting, or change.

    And yes, so far (to my knowledge) there's always been a way around it,including the 'disconnect from internet' trick mentioned ealier in the thread. As far as I know, that still works.

    Or kind-of does.

    It seems to be getting fussier and fussier about exactly when to disconnect. I rebuilt my new laptop's Windows recently to get rid of a persistent problem, and I ended up getting the latest 'guide' I could find online and following it carefully. The first one I tried was older, and no longer worked. IIRC, I had to leave the system connected initially (probably to d/l the right components), then at the right time, disconnect and select the offline option that then was presented, then again at the right moment, re-connect online. It then worked. But it was a right PITA to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonj1611 View Post
    If you go to accounts in settings you should be able to change it back to a local account :

    Select Start > Settings > Accounts > Your info.

    Select Sign in with a local account
    That certainly should work, but not to achieve my objective, which is to not have (ever) an MS account in the first place.

    My objective, however (to not get data-mined) is VERY difficult, if not impossible, to fully achieve these days. Short of never going online at all. I know that, but still do everything I can to take a number 2 in their data integrity ('them' being all the data miners, not just MS).

    Just bear in mind the 'fingerprinting' process used these days. I am far from convinced that telling MS who I am, then 'removing' the account will actually achieve anything, other than making it seem to me that I'm no longer identified by MS (and others). If they have machine id's, Windows id's, 'fingerprint data of all sorts) like browser(s), various applications used, etc) then having some identifier usable by MS that isn't my MS Account, is a trivial exercise, rendering it rather futile to later change the account to local. It will affect how your system(s) interact with each other, if you use MS services .... which I don't .... but will not (IMHO) remove their ability to link to you. You just won't be able to see it.

    Fully doing that, at last while using Windows at all, is next to impossible. The best I can come up with is to break my online activities down into "needs online" and "doesn't need online". Never the twain shall meet.

    Then, for "needs online", break that into "keep private" and "what the hell". Again, never mix the two. Different machines, different browsers, uses/doesn't-use VPN(s), and even which ISP/carrier is used.

    Even that, right pain that it is to do, isn't perfect.

    Will many people take it that far? Unfortunately, I very much doubt it.

    The only good news, such as it is, is that public (and therefore political) resentment and backlash is .... building. Will it get to the point that government's (and legal systems) step in? I think, probably, yes. But not yet. And when they do, I doubt they'll go far enough but I do think the signs are there that something of a rebalancing more towards consumers is coming. The snowball has started rolling downhill and is gaining momentum. Slowly.

    None of which will help razer much right now, sadly.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    I'm amazed at how quickly Microsoft has gone down this route. I've been running Pro for a while and have not seen any attempt to be forced, but I've installed Windows 10 Home a few times recently for others, and it's much more 'in your face' and harder to bypass.

    I've been playing around with Windows 10 2021 LTSC Evaluation in a VM recently. It's a different beast. The option for this level of debloating should be a default install option in Windows 10.

    Now, legally licensing it is a pain, but doable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen View Post
    And by trying to force me to like small pants, they've alienated me.

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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    Agree almost entirely, Agent, except that they've gone down this route particularly fast. The way I read it, we started down this route, at the very latest, when W8 came out. IMHO, and it is largely opinion not demonstrable fact, that was the writing on the wall, the route of future travel, even then. I mean, yeah, the obvious backlash was the Start menu removal farce, etc, and the "live tile" debate. But.... it was also when the "last ever version of Windows" thing, and "changing how we monetise it" claim came out .... IIRC. Unless I miss my bet, and I said it at the time, that set the tone for the direction since and we aren't there, at their destination, quite yet. I still wonder whether it's an "if" or a "when" that MS do an Adobe and go totally for SaaS with Windows, at least in the consumer space.

    My view is perhaps they were testing the waters, to see how much trouble it created, how much backlash. And it sure created some but, evidently, nowhere near enough. Or maybe, the policy decision (and direction) was already set in stone and it was just a softening up exercise since then.

    In any event, as I've said before (ad nauseum, I'm sure) I switched a lot of stuff to Linux. And a fair bit of the stuff still on Windows in on Libre, which is a pretty easy migration to Linux should I ever need to.

    Right now, I'm not going W11 and, so far at least, see no convincing reason to do so. My contingency plan is to stay W10 at least until no longer supported (2025, IIRC) and by then, probably those few things I still want to keep on W10 (like my genealogy software, with no Linux version) can stay on W10 but that machine will get shifted into my "doesn't need online" group. Realistically, for me, not much does need online now. Forums (don't do much that isn't here), a bit of online shopping, occasional online banking (not on this system anyway), and driver/software updates. That's about it. Maybe I'll even end up running my 'needs Windows' stuff on an emulator, or under a W10 VM on a Linux box. Dunno. I just know I'm expecting, sooner or later, for MS to either make avoiding their accounts impossible, or such a colossal PITA, that I finally do a "to hell with that", give Windows a final digitus impudicus (AKA flip it the bird) and sail off into the non-MS sunset.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    (like my genealogy software, with no Linux version)
    I would try that under Wine emulation on Linux, and put in Wine bug reports if anything doesn't work. That way, by the time you really need it to, the program might run under Linux.

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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    Good point. I'd thought about it but it's one of those things waiting for me to get 'a round tuit'.
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    I could print one for you?

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6016

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    stormrazer razer121's Avatar
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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    Quote Originally Posted by Saracen999 View Post
    I haven-snip-t now, sadly.

    This is it, im exactly the same, i hate with a passion targeted ads, i block everything if i cant read the site without adblock i close it, if i have to go through a BUNCH and we are talking anything over 20 "legitimate
    interest" cookies, i leave. I dont care for any of that heck i don't even watch TV and if i do hear an ad on a radio station it gets switched off.

    So i think i am just like you in that sense, its not for me however my other half is fine with it and she is happy that her laptop and PC have the same settings etc on them...me not so much but alas i cannot do anything if thats what she wants.
    Quote Originally Posted by TAKTAK View Post
    It was so small that mine wouldn't fit into it

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    Re: Windows 10 forced sign in before windows

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I could print one for you?

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6016
    Somewhere, I have one. Or had one (a beer mat). My mother gave it to me about 40 years ago.

    But I can't seem to find it. I wonder how that happened? Ahem. Moving on ....


    So, until it shows up .....
    A lesson learned from PeterB about dignity in adversity, so Peter, In Memorium, "Onwards and Upwards".

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