Headlines - DSGi predicted to close up to 200 stores

[nichomach]

Maybe, but I don't care what training the staff have, because I know what I want, and they're a conveniently local place to get it. And I can't get what I want at Tesco.

QFT; as long as you go in knowing what you want, they can be damned useful - you just avoid the sales staff. I was in with a friend recently, picking out a laptop. The chap didn't want to just buy online, so it was useful to be able to go in and show him what he was getting, which, as it turned out, was a very reasonable (and reasonably priced) Asus.

[directhex]

For all those doing a bit of DSGI bashing (which is fine) just remember that people could potentially be loosing their jobs, I know the smart ones will jump ship before pushed but there are those who have worked for the company for years and don't know anything other than retail and it would be hard for them to get into another job with another company. Especially those who are nearing reitrement.

plenty of retail outlets hire seniors. hell, they could work for the aforementioned tescos!

[MadduckUK]

I know the smart ones will jump ship before pushed but there are those who have worked for the company for years and don't know anything other than retail and it would be hard for them to get into another job with another company. Especially those who are nearing reitrement.

nevermind losing his ****ty job, i hope he spontaneously combusts, feet first.

[UseItNow]

nevermind losing his ****ty job, i hope he spontaneously combusts, feet first.

Yes I see the pun used with your new avatar.

I personally couldn't give a toss about what happens to those PC World ******* who rip off good people relying on their "expertise". B*****ds!

Apologies for the language.

[Saracen]

It seems to me that there's at least two schools of thought on PC World.

First, there's those that regard them as rip-off merchants. Presumably, this is based on the joint notions that they can be (or certainly were) VERY expensive for some items, and that the standard of advice you get is .... erm ... sometimes dubious.

On the latter point, I would agree. There are DSG staff that know what they're talking about, but there are also those that either don't know any better or don't care. Personally, I rather suspect that there are targets to meet and items to promote, and that advice is sometimes based on what the store wants to sell rather than "advice" on what the customer needs. But then, I question the sanity of anyone who thinks they can go into ANY store and be sure of getting complete, impartial and competent advice. Stores are there to sell stuff, not to provide free consultancy. So if you want good advice, by all mean ask in the store, but ask your friends, do your research on the web and even get advice from multiple stores. Such precautions are common sense.

As for their pricing, well, that's a bit trickier. It has certainly been my experience that at least some items are over-priced. On one occasions, I wanted a DVD-RAM disk. It was priced up at some £50 in PC World, but I went about two miles down the road and bought one for under £20. However, that particular PC-W store happened to be based about two miles from one of the country's largest mail-order outlets, that had a walk-in desk too. So while I was buying the same product, it wasn't from at all the same operation or under the same service.

I also once (very shortly after USB was released) bought a USB cable at that mail-order store. The label price was £10 (well, £9.99) but as I knew the owner (and for those of you that know my forum history I am not talking about who you may think I am, in that this was not OcUK --- see note below) I often got things more or less at cost price, and that's what happened on this occasion. Imagine my surprise when I was charged £0.87p .... for a £10 cable. And that markup was from a heavy discounter.

Anyway, my point is that different businesses have different cost structures, provide different service levels and run under different business models. So while a mail order outlet might flog that DVD-RAM disk at £20 and PC World at £50, the latter has a FAR larger cost level to cover, because they have hundreds of stores to buy and run, business rates to pay on them, warehousing and/or national distribution systems to operate and far, far more staff salaries to pay.

I can already hear howls of derision at the notion of PC World providing "service", but let me point out this - sheer local availability is a form of service. I needed that DVD-RAM disc now - not tomorrow or in a few days, and I didn't want to wait in for hours hoping the courier was coming. So if I hadn't had that local £20 store available, I'd have paid the £50 from PC World, because I needed the disc when I needed it and not when I could get it delivered. And that, at least, is a service that PC World provide that mail-order outlets don't, and it's why PC World are "convenient".

And that leads me to the second school of thought. It's those that know PC World can be expensive, and don't care, because the convenience is worth the price premium. If I buy a device and it goes wrong, I can take it back, plonk it on the counter and, so far at least, in my experience get it replaced. Oh they may test first, and are quite entitled to do so, but I've never yet had a problem with PC World in that regard. They've even replaced or refunded on open and installed software, when I've explained specifically why it was not up to scratch .... and that surprised me a bit. Good luck getting most mail-order outlets to do that.


So .... we have the school of thought that thinks PC World are rip-off artists. Well, if you think that, presumably you don't go in there? So why is it a problem that you think they're too expensive. I shop there, as and when it suits me (which isn't all the time) because they are local, carry a reasonable range and because I can usually get what I want over the counter. And because, if I mail-order it, I've got to wait in for a courier, and if the order is wrong or the item packs up, I've got to muck about (and probably pay the cost) of couriering it back, and then wait (sometimes for quite a while), then wait in again for a courier to receive the replacement. I work for myself and every hour I sit on my butt waiting for a courier is likely to be time I'm not out earning, so that alone incurs a substantial cost.

So, PC World charge more, but they provide a service (local availability) that some of us are quite prepared to pay for. Remember, cheapest isn't always best value, and not all of us are always after the best price, because there are other aspects to buying something than just the price. That's why some people use Waitrose as a supermarket, rather than Tesco. I do so, knowing full well that some items are more expensive, but that that also usually implies either higher product quality or better customer service, or both.

So :-

1) If you know what you want and regard PC World as rip-offs, then presumably you don't go there so it shouldn't bother you that some of us DO go there, knowing what their prices and staff training can be like.

2) If you know what PC World prices are like, but go there anyway, it'll be because price isn't the only factor and you're prepared to pay for local availability. In which case, it's the buyer's choice to pay a premium for it.

3) If you are technologically naive and don't know any better, then the basic laws of buying stuff suggest you either do your research, or take along a friend/relative that isn't technically naive.

But don't assume that either being charged a high price or being prepared to pay it means you're necessarily being ripped off, because it may well not.




Note : Re OcUK - despite being a forum mod for a couple of years, I only ever bought from them, IIRC, three times. On each occasion, a discount was not asked for, received or offered. In fact, at the point of buying, it was just an order over the phone and they had no way to know the buyer was a mod, because they didn't know my address (as a mod) and I didn't mention the forum association when placing the order.

[directhex]

does having worked at pc world, and knowing full well what their markup is on usb cables (about 96% for own-brand, 60% for belkin) count for anything?

like i said, it's nothing to do with the cost (bad as it may seem at times, they're a million miles from people like Maplins), but with dubious business practices

[Splash]

I have the letters DSGi on my CV - I worked tech support for them for around 2 years. It got my foot in the door of the IT industry, but even from where I was (in a call centre initially in Sheffield, then in Nottingham) it was clear that they saw the tech support line less as a value added service and more as an opportunity to constantly upsell.

Some (a few!) of the guys working those lines were great guys, I'm still in touch with a couple I can honestly say it was the least pleasant work environment I have ever had the misfortune to endure. I stuck there for 2 years because I *needed* that foot in the door, otherwise I soubt I would have stuck it for 3 months.

I'm afraid I'm firmly in the "don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out" camp. Best of luck to the staff in finding alternate employment - I firmly believe that most of them are reasonably intelligent people, but the management style and business practises stink to high heaven.

[Saracen]

does having worked at pc world, and knowing full well what their markup is on usb cables (about 96% for own-brand, 60% for belkin) count for anything?

like i said, it's nothing to do with the cost (bad as it may seem at times, they're a million miles from people like Maplins), but with dubious business practices

It counts, presumably, for helping form your opinion, which of course, you're fully entitled to.

On the other hand, I have reasons for my opinion which I, too, am fully entitled to.

And all I said, at the start, was that I do mind if they're circling the drain, because they're useful .... regardless of business practices or of pricing.

[dave87]

The issue I have with them closing 200 stores is that they are opening themselves up to the very competition they have sought to avoid - ie where are BestBuy going to cite their stores? Out of town retail centres. Which are DSGi most likely to sell? Those where PC World/Currys are present in multiple locations....

I've got to say, did they not see this one coming?

[Clingy]

My son works for them so not good news for him . From what he tells me they appear to be far more helpful and tolerant than most online retailers I have dealt with. And as for Tescos and their staff ....(Censored!)

I do wonder sometimes what happened to freedon of choice? Surely when you want to buy something you go to several places do some research? If not you deserve to be ripped off. If PCW dont fleece you then some Russian Fraudster will get you on the Canadian Lottery Scam?

[Splash]

If not you deserve to be ripped off. If PCW dont fleece you then some Russian Fraudster will get you on the Canadian Lottery Scam?

Sadly the majority of people who buy from PCW go there not because it's convenient, but because they believe that the staff are well trained techies who will make sure they get something that does the job. Hard as you may find find it to believe people are still scared of IT, and these people are more likely to find research on the internet confusing, and the local PC shop who *may* be able to get them a decent deal just too intimidating.

[digit]

People should just use the train of thought as with anything else, if you don't know what your doing you ask for help from someone else? Thats certainly what I choose to do..

[Splash]

People should just use the train of thought as with anything else, if you don't know what your doing you ask for help from someone else? Thats certainly what I choose to do..

All well and good, except when it's the PCW sales staff that you're asking for help...

[GoNz0]

For all those doing a bit of DSGI bashing (which is fine) just remember that people could potentially be loosing their jobs, I know the smart ones will jump ship before pushed but there are those who have worked for the company for years and don't know anything other than retail and it would be hard for them to get into another job with another company. Especially those who are nearing reitrement.

never heard of tesco ?

[timread]

PCW is a schizophrenic store. On the one hand, they can actually be very useful if you're looking for a 'must have right now TODAY' item, as long as you use the website first, do a reserve online, Collect@Store. Some of the reductions make them almost reasonable and competitive <gasp>. You have to arrive having DYOR though.

On the other hand, I think their upselling, insufficiently staffed, low technical knowledge BS-spouting staff and outrageous walk-in pricing are typical of low consumer value, RIPOFF Britain, and they deserve to disappear from the High Street.

I was in there yesterday, just browsing at lunchtime. The cheapest ethernet cable they had in there was £19.99 for a 1m CAT5 RJ45

[UseItNow]

I personally couldn't give a toss about what happens to those PC World ******* who rip off good people relying on their "expertise". B*****ds!
Apologies for the language.

Like I said, I do feel sorry for the people who will lose their jobs but for who have done it with at least an ounce of integrity. In this case, I have a couple of good friends who work at Currys and PC World who always try to put the needs of the customer first.

It seems to me that there's at least two schools of thought on PC World.

First, there's those that regard them as rip-off merchants. Presumably, this is based on the joint notions that they can be (or certainly were) VERY expensive for some items, and that the standard of advice you get is .... erm ... sometimes dubious.

On the latter point, I would agree.

So we agree.

And that leads me to the second school of thought. It's those that know PC World can be expensive, and don't care, because the convenience is worth the price premium. If I buy a device and it goes wrong, I can take it back, plonk it on the counter and, so far at least, in my experience get it replaced. Oh they may test first, and are quite entitled to do so, but I've never yet had a problem with PC World in that regard. They've even replaced or refunded on open and installed software, when I've explained specifically why it was not up to scratch .... and that surprised me a bit. Good luck getting most mail-order outlets to do that.

Agree again. Saracen, you put across everything I would have probably done so, in the end a business is there for a purpose, to bring prosperity to its owners/shareholders etc.

Yes, I do go to PC World for the convenience sometimes as you state, it's because of that, but when I'm there I do see some bad advice given out to people who are probably not as technologically savvy as you and I. Yes, they probably should have taken someone with a bit of a know-how, however, you and I are not in their shoes to know why there might not be the other person there. Especially with all the advertising on TV by PC World emphasizing their trained staff why should there not be an element of trust on them providing you with some albeit partial advice but sound advice as voiced by Splash's replies:

Sadly the majority of people who buy from PCW go there not because it's convenient, but because they believe that the staff are well trained techies who will make sure they get something that does the job. Hard as you may find find it to believe people are still scared of IT, and these people are more likely to find research on the internet confusing, and the local PC shop who *may* be able to get them a decent deal just too intimidating.

All well and good, except when it's the PCW sales staff that you're asking for help...

Finally, yes, DSGi may be closing up to 200 stores nationwide but when put into context their "empire" is vast and as such those forementioned stores to close will likely be the ones that aren't making them money, well in the percentage that they deem worthwhile in continuing to keep them open. Even if they do close 200 stores nationwide, they seem to be still left with at least a further 200 stores of PC World and Currys if the following reference is slightly in touch with actual figures.

Reference: DSG International (retailer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

So, in essence are DSGi (likes of PC World, Currys) going to disappear anytime soon, I doubt it, they have the business models and practice in place to keep them thriving for years to come.